Advice for a new reloader in MN?

[WGD118]

My advice from CA is for you to bundle up and try to stay warm this winter. Melting lead will help keep you warm.

Isn't it snowing there today and about -20 degrees?

It got down to 60F here yesterday.

Randy

Just rub it in while it may not get above the double digits till Friday when we get another six inches of snow and real feel is in the negative digits. Also no snow today but we didn't get six inches over the weekend. I will still take my cold weather and slightly less liberal state over the disgusting mess of constitutional rights you have to put up with in CA.

You are a brave man to stay but someone has to be the voice of reason.

[OS OK]

My advice from CA is for you to bundle up and try to stay warm this winter. Melting lead will help keep you warm.

Isn't it snowing there today and about -20 degrees?

It got down to 60F here yesterday.

Randy

Thats what I was thinking when I first read his post...last night I think it got down to +58*F...I thought I might perish in the wee hours!

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

SNIP...

I know no one wants to give up there source or supply of lead but this is my first roadblock. My original plan was to hit up local tire shops for WW like the forums and many different videos talk about but upon doing further research I saw that MN had banned the use of lead in WW at the beginning of 2016 this leads me to believe that I will most likely find iron and zinc instead of lead provided any shops would even give/sell to me. Is that my only option other then buying ingots straight out or do recycling centers in the Twin Cities have cheap scrap lead? Hoping you guys have some wisdom on places I can start hunting for lead.

Getting WW from tire shops in MN, is tough if you don't have connections, ever since 2008 and the metals spike, there have been scrappers scrounging them. Add to that, before 2016, I think is was 2013 or 2014, the State mandated that all state vehicles have non-lead WW installed when tires were replaced...what that meant was, every tire shop/repair shop that worked on Government vehicles switched to non-lead WW.
The conclusion is, when you find WW's at tire shops/repair shops, there is a pretty high percentage of steel/Zinc and it's super rare to get them free or cheap, so I've come to the conclusion, if you can't find other sources, it's more cost effective to buy COWW ingots or range scrap ingots from vendors here...and saves a lot of dirty work.

Automotive salvage yards, especially outside the twin cities, is a great place to find WW's, as they are typically off old cars, and the iron/zinc percentage is low.

Another source is "cleanout" companies, I have one friend who does that, and I get all kinds of different lead alloy salvage stuff from him. Which leads me to one final thought, that's kind of obvious, is to put out the word, tell all your friends and family to be on the lookout for lead (roof flashing, dental shields, Isotope containers, Pipe, cast iron sewer pipe joints, range scrap, WW, dimensional lead, battery cable ends, old diving weights, old homemade boat anchors, and the obvious old guy who use to cast his own and has stuff he hasn't used for decades). Putting the word out, may not pay off for a year or so, so just gently remind your friends and family from time to time, and sooner or later, you'll stumble onto a score so big, you'll wonder if you should take it (I've turned down a couple myself).

Lastly, Look for, and get the Lyman cast bullet handbook 4th Ed. it's one of the best sources of info about casting that there is, plus, once you start loading cast, it has most of the data you'll need.
good luck

[dverna]

KISS

Start with commercial foundry lead. It will have no junk in it. If you cast poor bullets, you know it is you or the mold....probably YOU. Look at saving money on alloy after you have proven you can make good bullets.

Invest in a thermometer, start at 700 degrees. Depending on the mold and alloy you may need to adjust temperature. When you find what works....WRITE IT DOWN

Do not start with powder coat. Tumble or pan lubes are cheap and effective.....and simple.

Buy a good mold. Lee molds can be great or not so great. I would not recommend starting with one.

Don Verna

[catskinner]

For a lead source check with indoor ranges in your area. I have cleaned out the backstop at the club I belong to. Depending on what the local shooters are using the composition will vary. Most of what I've recovered goes 11-13 bhn which works for a lot of applications. Since you are in the twin cities hit the gun show at the state fairgrounds in March. The Cast Bullet Association usually has a table there. Talk to them and ask questions. I know some of them from shooting CBA matches and they will steer you right. Might even be there myself since I haven't gone there in several years.

[RogerDat]

+1 on the thermometer This one is same range as the "lead" thermometers from reloading companies but less expensive https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...hps_bw_c_x_2_w

Cleaning out a backstop of a range wear suitable breathing protection, gloves, and get out of any dust covered clothes afterwards. Lot of lead dust accumulates and breathing in lead or dust is probably the more likely way to find yourself elevating your blood lead levels. Casting shouldn't unless you like your fingers or eat where you cast. Dust from backstop or from spent brass can be a source of lead in your system.

The nice thing about Lee molds is you can try different weights and configurations inexpensively. The bullets are generally of a good design. You may well want to eventually invest in better molds but Lee is a great way to find out what works. And in some cases they hold their own against the competition. A 6 cavity 158 SWC for 38 is on my wish list. But my 2 cavity version has cranked out at least 1,500 bullets and still works fine. NOE, Accurate, Lyman all make arguably better molds but better at $80 doesn't mean the works well at $20 should be avoided.

Tumble lube is cheap, fast and easy. Look up 45/45/10 lube. And look into LsStuff white label alox, cheaper than the little bottles from Lee http://www.lsstuff.com/ he also has lubes that are good for pan lubing or even using a finger to push into the lube groove. Products are listed in his store. Lot of information on using each item.

[RogerDat]

I wish I could recall the place that sold cast lead bullets from common molds. Another good way to get started reloading with cast lead and find out if a certain mold would be good for your firearm. Maybe someone will be able to provide a link.

[kmrra]

glad you found that , its a lot cheeper than any of rhe other thermometers

[Shiloh]

Minneapolis or St Paul??

SHiloh

[WGD118]

Thanks for the thermometer link, I have saved it in my amazon cart.

Why all the talk of tumble lube? To me it seems powder lube is better, the cost isn't much more but the trade offs seem much better.

[Yodogsandman]

You need more "stuff" for powder coating, like a convection oven, oven thermometer, plates to set boolits on, etc...
They are "prettier" than dull, grey boolits.

Tumble lube (Lee Liquid Alox) comes with a Lee sizing die kit and can be as simple as rolling boolits around in a baggie with a drop of tumble lube and placing them on wax paper to dry.

[wv109323]

Random Comments from all the above posts.
1.) Take two or three heavy duty buckets with you when you visit the tire shops. You don't want to ask how much a five gallon bucket of wheel weights weighs.
2.) You may want to tell the tire shops you want the lead to make "fishing sinkers" and not bullets. That seems to be more PC when trying to get your foot in the door.
3.) To get started I may buy some cast boolits. That way you may find a bullet that shoots in your rifle and then you just need to duplicate that bullet for your load. Plus if you buy 100 bullets and they don't work out you can melt the rest of them down. It is cheaper to buy a hundred bullets than investing in a mold that is not compatible for your rifle. Plus buying initial bullets takes the learning curve out of casting until you have your reloading figured out.
4.) Powder coating or tumble lube are both acceptable. It is personal choice. With powder coating, an advantage is that the powder coat increases the bullet diameter. That may be anvantageous especially if the rifle is Microgrooved.

[725]

As you have indicated in the Original Post (OP), you are just starting out with reloading and also bullet casting. For what it's worth, I suggest that you start out with a Lee Loader in .45-70. Those Lee Loaders are a one box outfit that will make exceptional ammo. I guess the going rate is about $30 - $35 for the whole kit. You supply the hammer. ! Hammer ! ? ? Yep. Ingenious device that produces very good ammo, one round at a time. No doubt, as funds improve and experience accumulates, you'll move into a press, dies, sizers, and all manner of STUFF to load you own. For the start up, it's hard to beat the Lee Classic Loaders. As long as you are on this site, you might be able to search articles written by a now deceased former member who went by the name "Junior". Not sure about his proper handle. Hope somebody here pipes up with the complete name. Well worth the read and education about the Lee Loaders. Best of luck. 725

[MostlyLeverGuns]

Since you have not reloaded ANY cartridges, maybe you should consider purchasing some bullets, lead or other to begin your adventure. This is part of avoiding the TOO MANY variables that can occur. Start with a single powder, known to work well in the .45-70, say H4198, then try for useful accuracy with a bullet you like. It may only take 40 or 50 rounds but you should get to be comfortable with the RELOADING part then add the bullet creation. Your excitemant/enthusiasm is GREAT, but you need start with some basic processes to avoid the frustration that could cause you to turn away from this great lifelong endeavor/passion/experience that can exist at whatever involvement you care for.

[WGD118]

Snip.. Your excitemant/enthusiasm is GREAT, but you need start with some basic processes to avoid the frustration that could cause you to turn away from this great lifelong endeavor/passion/experience that can exist at whatever involvement you care for.

Thank you, and while I understand the idea of buying a couple boxes to work with reloading and at this point I may have to my current search for WW is turning up empty and a member told me that scrap yards in MN are not allowed to sell lead to residents. The idea of doing the whole process from scratch is part of what excites me also I find it much more interesting where there are a ton of variables and I am in the deep end absorbing information and feeling like I don't know it all. A good example of this is I picked up a 3d printer 6 months ago and spent the first 3 learning and tinkering as I figured out all the variables and problems, now I am in the process of building one from scratch a whole new set of variables and problems just a way of keeping things interesting. While this can lead to frustrations it makes the process of figuring out the solution all that more appealing and rewarding.

So not only do I expect to get cheaper ammo to shoot a big plus, I also learn about alloys and mixtures, fluxing, hardness, powder types, bootlit types, rated chamber pressures, and many other things each step being a part of a complex process. So while I understand buying precast bullets is a wise choice at this time I want to stick with the more challenging process.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Thank you, and while I understand the idea of buying a couple boxes to work with reloading and at this point I may have to my current search for WW is turning up empty and a member told me that scrap yards in MN are not allowed to sell lead to residents.

...SNIP

While I've heard that line from a few places, I think it's just that, "a line" and not an actual law or rule. As we know, there is a liberal movement to ban Lead, and that MN is a liberal state, and the Twin Cities is the liberal epi-center of the State. Travel out of the Cities and check out rural salvage yards as I suggested...Don't call, these types of places (in rural settings) hate phone calls.

I commend you on your outlook into the casting hobby, most people don't look at it as a challenge, they just want cheap shootin' and most of the time that type of person is easily frustrated when troubles arise (myself included). Since we are beyond the advice of scavenging scrap lead, I'll add one thing that was a big huddle for me. Reloading dies...they are designed and made for jacketed bullets. While regular reloading dies will work for commercial cast bullets, as they are generally made with a hard alloy, there can be challenges using standard dies with home cast boolits, as they are generally made with softer (scrap) alloys. A softer alloy is usually better functioning, but needs different techniques to load them to be successful. Every caliber and every die manufacture can have different issues, so I just can't outline the do's and don'ts here. The biggest issue (that goes across the spectrum) is case tension on the cast boolit. Most pistol die sets have too small of a expander for cast boolits and most Rifle FL size dies will size the neck too small for cast boolits ....and those things can squeeze (swage) the boollit smaller when seated, creating a undersized boolit that the shooter is unaware of and will cause lead fouling and can cause poor accuracy.

[runfiverun]

wanting to be a tinkerer and improver.
well,,,,,,,,,, you come to the right side of the planet.
you'll learn your pistols, revolvers, and rifles.
you'll learn to muck about with die sets.
you'll learn oh boy you'll learn if your willing and want to pursue the different avenues of casting ain't afraid to fail and keep asking why.

[W.R.Buchanan]

The advice 725 provided above about using a Lee Loader to learn the process is a great place to start, and I recommend them to virtually everyone who voices and interest in Reloading his own ammunition. They are the simplest tool there is and at $35 a screamin' bargain.

I started with one and still use them occasionally.

They are fun to use and educate you on the sequence of events necessary to Reload a Cartridge in the simplest possible manner, and really they aren't "that much Slower" than any other Single Stage method of loading. IE a single stage press. They are a lot more portable as well.

When I started reloading in 1971 I bought a Lee Loader for my .243, and I still have it. Wish I had the gun back as well. I soon bought a .44 Magnum Revolver, and I also bought a Lee Loader for it and soon tired of buying Jacketed Bullets for it. So I bought a Lee Bullet Mould a small RCBS Lead Melting Pot and a Lyman Ladle, and a Lyman Cast Bullet Manual, and learned how to Cast Boolits on my stove in my kitchen,,, ( no wife!). I still have all those tools and still use them. (In my shop!)

My S&W Model 29 revolver would put 5 of those Lee Boolits into 1.5" group with boring regularity. Don't have that gun either and like an idiot I gave away the Lee Loader with it. But I still have and use that mould and it makes perfect boolits everytime with simple wheel weights.

My main advice to you would be to start with a simple Lee Loader and plastic mallet and learn how to load ammo. Then get a lead pot and Ladle and a Lee Mould and learn how to cast boolits. Lee moulds work well and are pretty inexpensive with most around $20. You have already stated that you want to do .45 cal boolits and that is a good place to start as short fat boolits are much easier to learn on than long skinny ones.

My Last bit of advice would be to buy your Lee Stuff from "Titan Reloading" ,,, as they are great people to deal with, and are Sponsors of this site.

Good luck and welcome to the hobby.

Randy

[WFO2]

I just started casting this year started with a Lee 20 pound pot and an order of Lyman #2 from Roto metals . Bought a Lyman 150 grain 4cav mold for 38 special and went to town . Since I have scrounged lead from ISO cores and wheel weights .Don't let the lack of lead stop you once you get going you will find sources for lead . I'm 57 and have a Triple A and a leaking Aortic valve . Hoping out new President will fix health care so I can retire . If you have any questions just ask , the folks on here are a great help . You can PM me to if you wish . Good luck .

[RogerDat]

The Lee Loaders (aka wack-a-mole kits) are neat and good way to learn reloading. If you go that route you will want one of those plastic/rubber headed hammers. I stopped buying them because the cost of those Lee Loader kits was the same as the cost of a set of dies. Once you have a press it just didn't make sense to me to not buy the dies.

I may eventually purchase more to cover some more calibers one of these days but way down on the list of priorities. Still with that being said using one was and is fun and highly portable. I have them for shot gun also. I figure cheaper to buy finished rounds but one never knows could be useful and since I do have some shot...