Model 96 Swedish Mauser Accident

[racepres]

Sure Glad that wasn't a Spanish 1916 in 7.62 NATO!!!!
Poor ole Spanish '93 will blow every time!!!
Tho Mine keeps on keepin on!!!!

[Mr Humble]

Yup we all like those loads but 2400 is a poor choice for a medium size BN cartridge. Too easy to miss a double charge. Given that the Swede is not a hot rod with 140-160 gr jacketed bullets using a powder in the Varget burn range should give good results with no chance of a double charge.

[dverna]

It is not a reduced charge and that is the problem. It is poor loading procedures.

Pick up case, drop powder....DO NOT PUT CASE INTO A LOADING BLOCK!!!!! Place bullet on case neck, and seat bullet. No chance of double charging.

If you double charge using this procedure, there are three options left. Buy a progressive press that has a station for a powder check die, use powder charges that overflow the case with a double charge, or stop reloading.

Don Verna

[bouncer50]

I seen a few guns blow apart and it was bulleye powder that did it. Guys use 2400 in reduce cast loads in 30-06 308 7.7 Jap 30-30 i never hear of them blowing up. ? I willing to bet it was a reloading error.

[villagelightsmith]

Let me be the first to say, "I don't know."

[CHeatermk3]

Well, I don't know either but 18 grains of 2400 in that 6.5x55 case seems like a lot.

"the load", 16.0gn 2400, is meant for 30 cal and up.

I would like to have a look at the 3 fired cases that didn't blow the rifle up...

[swheeler]

Gawd now they will have to start putting more warnings in reloading manuals!

[map55b]

An under charged case could also cause excessive pressures. Which is definitely the issue here. A full case will burn the powder from the primer to the case mouth, but if the case is only filled half way the primer could light the surface of the entire charge at one time causing a surge in pressure.

[Multigunner]

Problem with identifying an SEE is that it destroys the evidence of an SEE.

[dubber123]

It is not a reduced charge and that is the problem. It is poor loading procedures.

Pick up case, drop powder....DO NOT PUT CASE INTO A LOADING BLOCK!!!!! Place bullet on case neck, and seat bullet. No chance of double charging.

If you double charge using this procedure, there are three options left. Buy a progressive press that has a station for a powder check die, use powder charges that overflow the case with a double charge, or stop reloading.

Don Verna

That's how I have always done it too. It might be slower, but I have never had any extra powder sneak in on me either I'm glad the shooter is ok, sad to see a Swede go though.

[Char-Gar]

My mystery here. A double charge of powder did the deed. Sure, sure, the shooter said he didn't do that, but he did. No need to look for exotic and esoteric causes, too much powder pure and simple.

[.455 Webley]

Just want to confirm here that no case filler was invited to the party here. We had one of these here a few months back and it took a while for it to come out that cream of wheat had been used in the load. Sorry about your friend, his thumb, and the great rifle that is now a learning tool and not a shooting tool.

[waksupi]

I would consider the possibility of a hang fire, resulting in a SEE condition.

[Mr Humble]

There is NO SUCH THING as an SEE. It's myth, BS, oldwives tale etc.. NO reputable lab has EVER been able to duplicate it under controlled conditions. The usual culprit was claimed to be reduced loads of 4831 NOT fast burners like 2400. I have been using reduced loads of 4350, 4831 and 50BMG for 5 decades...... have yet to have any problem. When HP White can produce it I'll listen. In the meantime it's another myth that some guys sometime, somewhere said and people have been parroting it ever since with ZERO critical thinking. See: "all Republicans are white power racists" ...... samo, samo !!!

[Kevinakaq]

It is not a reduced charge and that is the problem. It is poor loading procedures.

Pick up case, drop powder....DO NOT PUT CASE INTO A LOADING BLOCK!!!!! Place bullet on case neck, and seat bullet. No chance of double charging.


Don Verna

Sound wisdom.

I place powder funnel on table (infeed down), place brass upside down in discharge of funnel to prove no powder present, pick both up and add powder from Chargemaster, put in press immediately and seat bullet. Safe as I can imagine to prevent double charging.

[tomme boy]

Then why is it that when it happens it is USUALLY a 6.5 Swede? Just because the lab tried 1000 times to reproduce it, does not mean that on 1001 it may have happened.

Have you ever looked at a pressure trace graph of different cartridges firing. I have and you can clearly see the spike on the 6.5 because of the long throat. Then if you factor in a rough worn throat, or one that is leaded up it can cause the PSI to skyrocket.

So don't assume that you know everything, keep an open mind. Because ALWAYS an NEVER have been proven wrong over and over again.

[salpal48]

Contrary. to what was posted. This Has all the ear marks of Human Error. .This is an Overload situation. . As it was said 18 GN did not do this. . Double charge Yes.
Many Loader Continue to use Pistol Powder with Rifle loads. . These are the chances You take. traditional Lyman Loading Data for Years Has been a conservative. guide . . most loader are quick to blame the data. . There own carelessness is @ fault. Hopefully there was no injury to the shooter.
this is the risk We take. but the loader is @ fault and no one else

[ukrifleman]

[QUOTE=CHeatermk3;3871866]Well, I don't know either but 18 grains of 2400 in that 6.5x55 case seems like a lot.

"the load", 16.0gn 2400, is meant for 30 cal and up.

The Lyman 49th gives a start load of 13.0gn of 2400 and 18.0gn as a never exceed load for 6.5x55 with a 150gn cast bullet.
Incidentally, these loads were worked up by Lyman using a Swede M38 as a test rifle.
ukrifleman

[Ballistics in Scotland]

There is NO SUCH THING as an SEE. It's myth, BS, oldwives tale etc.. NO reputable lab has EVER been able to duplicate it under controlled conditions. The usual culprit was claimed to be reduced loads of 4831 NOT fast burners like 2400. I have been using reduced loads of 4350, 4831 and 50BMG for 5 decades...... have yet to have any problem. When HP White can produce it I'll listen. In the meantime it's another myth that some guys sometime, somewhere said and people have been parroting it ever since with ZERO critical thinking. See: "all Republicans are white power racists" ...... samo, samo !!!

Many a thing hasn't been reproduced under controlled conditions which plenty of people wouldn't want to dismiss as myth. Pretty well all of religion for a start. You are right that many people are far too eager to parrot the phrases, often without understanding them. The blowup of a rifle in the manner assumed may indeed not have been conclusively shown under controlled condition. There is certainly a very great dearth of rifle cartridges cases which have failed in this way, without quite producing failure of the rifle - and we would expect this to happen sometimes, furnishing much more easily recognised evidence.

But the creation of a wave of extremely high pressure from a part-filled combustion chamber has been demonstrated, most conclusively, for something over a century. Paul Vieille, who invented gelatinised smokeless rifle powders, enclosed a small volume of powder in an elongated sealed vessel, strong enough to resist bursting, and ignited it at one end. When the powder was shaken out along the length of the tube, pressure rose exactly as expected. When it was confined adjacent to the ignition point, his instruments showed a wave of pressure which progressed along the vessel, and built up to a cushion of far higher than normal pressured gases at the far end. He was able to incorporate it in a highly sensitive pendulum device, and showed that being highly elastic, this mass of gases bounced several times from one end of the tube to the other.

Here is my own experimentally produced double ring bulge from this effect, in a strong but condemned 12ga barrel. It shows that the gas wave travelled some fifteen inches and back again, in the time it took for the charge plus bore obstruction (a steel nut wrapped in tissue) to move about two inches. Although the gases are a small fraction of the mass of the projectile, energy equals MV². They certainly have the power to do great harm. The lighter barrel of a double gun would most likely have experienced the characteristic splayed obstruction burst which the lawyers of gun and ammunition manufacturers love to see.

In a high-powered rifle the forces involved would be much greater. I doubt very much whether it happened in the present case. It is a great rarity with any kind of rifle or load (if it exists), and seems connected with slow, hard to ignite powders. You have regularly got away with it using 4350. The firearm is of such strength that it is unlikely the gases have such a long distance to accelerate. 2400 is a much more easily ignited powder, which flows easily, and we may assume that this rifle was fired horizontally.

I think the accident under discussion here was due to some much more familiar cause, and a double charge has to be the front runner. With this particular shot, the shooter wasn't in much of a position to judge recoil. Or something else may have been in the case, reducing the burning space and possibly adding to the projectile weight. I wonder if he has missed a 6mm. bullet lately?

[ukrifleman]

I place powder funnel on table (infeed down), place brass upside down in discharge of funnel to prove no powder present, pick both up and add powder from Chargemaster, put in press immediately and seat bullet. Safe as I can imagine to prevent double charging.[/QUOTE]

Exactly how I carry out my loading procedure, with the addition that every powder charge gets checked in my Redding No.2 scale before charging the case.
ukrifleman