Gas Check Seating Problem

[tchepone]

Guys:
One of our customers (www.coilandfoil.com) is having a problem seating his gas checks made with Yonky's material. He is using a Lee push through type sizing die. The die is 22 caliber and produces sized bullets of .225" diameter.
He purchased the copper gas checks from us. They are made from .008" soft copper, possibly C101.
He seems to feel the copper is too thick and is dragging through the die causing what you can see in the photo. I don't have any experience with the Lee push through sizing die and do not have that problem with my Star or Lyman dies. I can use material from .005" to .010" without having this problem. He states he has used Hornady checks and does not have this problem with them. Does anyone have any suggestions? Thank you...Gil - coilandfoil USA Shipping.

Added - I am not sure if he is sizing base first or nose first.
The copper gas checks were made with a Freechex III tool.

Attachment 182055

[BUCKEYE BANDIT]

Looks like the (pusher stem)is undersized to me.Had that problem with a 309 Lee sizer,switched to the 314 stem,problem solved.

[tzzler44]

Also seems like he's not seating the checks fully before running them through the sizer. The gas check shanks on that bullet may be a bit large for the gas checks. He would either chamfer the bullet bases, flare the gas checks before seating, or use a gas check seating die. Ideally, all three.

[Hick]

What they said above. I use a lee sizer to seat my gas checks. You need to be sure the shank is in the check completely and size nose first. If the check is not fully on the base of the bullet the sizer die will not seat them correctly. All the sizer die really does is crimp the check on the shank-- but it has to be properly seated before you run it through the die. I haven't tried the freechex tool-- I'm using Hornady checks at the moment.

[Soundguy]

My bet is if he took a case mouth OD chamfer tool, or similar to the bullet base it would seat better.

[Soundguy]

Ps, I dont see much lube, with no lube, he nigh need excessive pressure, and leave some galled lead in the die, contributing to this problem. I use lee push the sizers and hornady gas checks with no issues. However I lube and clean my tools too.

[GhostHawk]

I'm with soundguy. If it is denting noses first I'd lube with thinned alox, then I would try point first, pusher stem touching check. Also I might try sizing first, then add check, and resize. Again nose first.

A small lee press mounted base up under a table or bench is great for this.

[tchepone]

Thank you Gentlemen:
We have made our customer aware of these posts. Hopefully one of the suggestions should cure his problem.
From the photo of his bullets I lean toward the pusher stem being too small.
Solidly and evenly seating the checks on the bullet base by hand prior to inserting the bullet into the sizing die is also necessary. I agree with Hick regarding this.

Our customer has been indicating he feels the checks are too thick. (they are .008") Based on experience with Star & Lyman tools I don't feel this too be the case. Wouldn't the check just swage tighter to the bullet? Could roughness in the entrance taper of the die also be a possibility??
I am not aware of when or how he is lubing the bullets. (His lube is ALOX)
His mold is a LEE, 2 cavity.

Here are some of the customers comments:
Thank you for the feedback. I am relatively new to reloading (18 months) but I do take a lot of care and push the cap fully home before sitting on the pin and pushing through the die.
I have checked the die and the hole measures 0.232 and the dia of the pin is 0.220 so it looks like the set is worn out. That is a shame as it was bought brand new and has done hardly any work. I will be getting a new die and seeing if this sorts it out.
"I have checked the die again and it is tapered internally. I have checked the sized bullets and they come out consistently at .225 (very slightly oversize)."
"This suggests that the copper is too thick and dragging back down the die as the pin pushes upwards. Therefore, may I make a suggestion do you have gas checks in a range of thinner gauges. I believe the ones sent to me are 0.2mm (0.008)."

Hopefully he will find something here to cure his issue. Thank you all for the suggestions....G

Guys:
One of our customers (www.coilandfoil.com) is having a problem seating his gas checks made with Yonky's material. He is using a Lee push through type sizing die. The die is 22 caliber and produces sized bullets of .225" diameter.
He purchased the copper gas checks from us. They are made from .008" soft copper, possibly C101.
He seems to feel the copper is too thick and is dragging through the die causing what you can see in the photo. I don't have any experience with the Lee push through sizing die and do not have that problem with my Star or Lyman dies. I can use material from .005" to .010" without having this problem. He states he has used Hornady checks and does not have this problem with them. Does anyone have any suggestions? Thank you...Gil - coilandfoil USA Shipping.

Added - I am not sure if he is sizing base first or nose first.
The copper gas checks were made with a Freechex III tool.

Attachment 182055

[Soundguy]

He should inspect the sizer die to make sure it is clean. That tho gas check should size Dow quite a bit easier than the lead alloy projectile. He needs to get them on straight, install by hand, tamp down on a table, if the heels on the bullet are over size, chamfer them slightly.

If the die has old lube lead or gilding material from a galled check or projectile, clean with solvent and a bronze bore brush, he can then put a patch on a bag, put the mag in a drill, put some fine cut polish compound on the patched jag, then polish the die , after cleaning of course.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I'd recommend polishing the Lee Die, since there appears to be too much friction happening during sizing, and there seems to be lube on the boolits in the photo...it's best to lube the boolit before sizing and again after sizing. If that doesn't cure the problem, the customer could very well be correct in needing a thinner GC, measuring the boolit's GC shank will be the best indicator of that. I haven't cast with Lee's new 22 design, and I haven't read anywhere if that design is known to have an oversize shank or not.
Good luck.

[wmitty]

I've got the 6 cavity Lee mould for this boolit; the check shanks are slightly oversize for the Hornady checks I'm using. I made a punch to open the checks slightly and am still having a problem seating the checks. I'm going to try annealing the checks before opening them with the punch to see if I can prevent the check from stripping lead from the shank as it is being seated. I am feeling roughness in the .225" Lee push thru die as the seated check passes thru the i.d., so I'll try lapping it a bit.

[tchepone]

wmitty:

Are you having the same problem with the Hornady checks? Our customer does not have the problem with Hornady checks. He is using www.coilandfoil.com .008" soft copper. What is the diameter of the shank on the Lee bullet? Do all 6 cavities have the same shank diameter? Thanks...Gil

I've got the 6 cavity Lee mould for this boolit; the check shanks are slightly oversize for the Hornady checks I'm using. I made a punch to open the checks slightly and am still having a problem seating the checks. I'm going to try annealing the checks before opening them with the punch to see if I can prevent the check from stripping lead from the shank as it is being seated. I am feeling roughness in the .225" Lee push thru die as the seated check passes thru the i.d., so I'll try lapping it a bit.

[tchepone]

Seems we have heard from another www.coilandfoil.com customer having similar problems with his gas checks folding down when he sizes them and creating divots on the base or uneven bases. The difference here is...he is using .0082" aluminum.
He also has the Lee 22 caliber mold (6 cavity) and a Lee push through sizer (.225"). The common thing here seems to be the mold & sizer.

Can someone post the gas check shank diameter and length for the Lee bullet and if it is consistent across all 6 cavities.

I have a NOE 4 cavity, SAECO #221 bullet, (NOE 225-60-RN ) and I am not having any gas check issues. I have used .007" copper, .0082" aluminum & .010" brass from www.coilandfoil.com, made with a Freechex III tool.
The NOE shank diameter is .213"-.210" with a .050" length. I use both .224 & .225 Star sizing dies (depending on which gun the bullets are destined for) and size nose first. I finger seat the check, size and lube in one push. I also use a Lyman 450 with .225" Lyman H&I die with the correct top punch.

For some reason this issue seems to have become way to complex. It ought not be that hard to solve. Thanks...Gil

[Soundguy]

Looking forward to hearing the results.

[jhalcott]

When I tried seating hornadycheccks nose first on SOME.30cal bullets thru a Lee sizer many ofthe checks would peel off . The bases seemed to flare the checks and theywould hang up insteadof sliding thru. I decided tot run them thru check firstand thatcuredthe problem .

[Soundguy]

I have no problem running lubed boolits thru a properly cleaned lee push thru sizer.

My molds are lee as well.

Hornady gas checks.

Last batch was various .358's

I run nose first, after setting gas check on bullet, if it doesn't set straight, a tap on the desk does it

[Randy Bohannon]

I had bought some of the 45 cal Gator checks and had nothing but problems.Chased it down to "spring back" annealed them and problem went away.Bought some Hornady and zero annealing and perfect fit and crimp.Only problem I have ever had with gas checks have been with anything other than Hornady,I spend a few $ more and not have to anneal.

[Soundguy]

Agreed, I like hornady.

[c1skout]

Your customer needs to screw the sizing die into the press farther. That dent is being caused by the nose of the next boolit up pushing only on the center of the check while the "first" boolit is still in the sizing portion of the die. I just had to diagnose the same issue, and screwing the sizer down so that the pusher stem bottomed against the die before the press ran out of travel fixed it for me!

[DHDeal]

I had that issue when I first tried seating PBGC on to bullets. They would leave the PBGC smeared on one side and a nice dimple, as seen in the pic above, on the base. I started seating them using one of my LAM presses with the Lyman GC Seater installed. I went so far as milling about 1/8" from the top of the GC Seater so I could size the PBGC all the way on. No more smeared on PBGC's and it works just as well sizing on regular GC's. The tool is cheap enough to buy 2 anyway.

I found this works better for me when you seat the thin checks on, but not really necessary when seating regular checks on.