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Thread: My 30 cal set up

  1. #21
    Boolit Master lead chucker's Avatar
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    These bullets have a very slight taper. If I was to make a longer bullet with this die, like a 150 gr it would be too fat on the end. I used wood dowels for laps. couldn't find any 3/8 bras rod in town to make them out of. Next die I might try aluminum rod. I think the lap is where the money's at.
    Dont pee down my back and tell me its raining.

  2. #22
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    Be carefull with aluminium laps. As aluminium expands quite much when temperature goes up and dont have any lubrication properies, you might get the lap stuck or broke inside the die. I learned it the hard way..

    S

  3. #23
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    Lead chucker you have a very capable setup. You'd be surprised what people can do with a little machine.
    (well maybe not you)

    Seeing your dies has made me redesign my setup as I was making them for a arbor press.

    Now I'm turning them out for the RCBS rock chucker press.
    I was going with the arbor press only because a friend of mine shoots 1000 Y @ Williamsport and he resizes all his bullets with a setup that cost 2500.00
    and it came with 3 different abor presses.

    I started turning new dies out last night. going to make myself a whole pile of blanks. so I can just use and modify them as i want.

    I'll also be looking into your copper tube setup more as time goes by.

    Rich

  4. #24
    Boolit Master lead chucker's Avatar
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    Did you make a ram for you rcbs press? The ram i had make brought every thing together.
    Dont pee down my back and tell me its raining.

  5. #25
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    Lead Chucker,
    I really appreciate you sharing all this information. I have a couple lathes, but have not got them set up and running yet. Your success is very inspirational. I have a nice set of 308 dies from RCE. I want to make a 311 point form die for 7.62x39 ammo. As far lapping, I plan on purchasing high quality cast iron laps from American Lap Company. These laps are adjustable within several thousands so you can lap to precise diameters with no taper. They will work fine as is for core seat and core swage dies. I plan to try to cut an ogive on the cast iron laps for lapping point form dies. I don't know if this is possible, but I am going to give it a try when I get my lathes up and running.

  6. #26
    Boolit Master lead chucker's Avatar
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    I thought of making lapps from bolts but a member here said they are too hard. I would think cast iron would be to hard also. Let me know how they work, an adjustable lap would be nice. I made some 120 grain for my 300 black out a while back but they had tooo much tapper. I tried to fix it and it ended up over sized. I used the same length copper tube for my 110 gr I have now. 120 gr would be a nice weight for 7.62x39
    Last edited by lead chucker; 12-07-2016 at 04:17 AM.
    Dont pee down my back and tell me its raining.

  7. #27
    Boolit Master lead chucker's Avatar
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    seppos thanks for the info on the aluminum. I wouldn't have accounted for that.
    Dont pee down my back and tell me its raining.

  8. #28
    Boolit Master lead chucker's Avatar
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    During this whole project my motto has been why do something once when you can do it five times. I have a small pile of someday to be something else punches and dies.
    Dont pee down my back and tell me its raining.

  9. #29
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    30's make pretty good 31's or 32's.
    you could probably make a decent lap from some cold rolled steel, it's pretty soft.
    but holds up well I have made some pins from it to punch the bullets back out of the point form die.

  10. #30
    Boolit Master lead chucker's Avatar
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    I figured any thing softer than the steel I'm working with would be ok to use for laps. Should they be polished smooth?
    Dont pee down my back and tell me its raining.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by runfiverun View Post
    30's make pretty good 31's or 32's.
    you could probably make a decent lap from some cold rolled steel, it's pretty soft.
    but holds up well I have made some pins from it to punch the bullets back out of the point form die.
    1018 would be good for laps it's also common and cheap.
    It has some excellent qualities for making tools.
    Here is one of many spec sheets for it.

    https://www.speedymetals.com/informa...eat%20Treating

    And a snippet of text.

    C1018 is a general purpose low carbon steel with good case hardening qualities. It has a higher manganese content than certain other low carbon grades, such as 1020. With higher manganese, 1018 is better steel for carburized parts, since it produces a harder and more uniform case. It also has higher mechanical properties and better machinability due to the cold drawing process. Most 1018 is produced by cold drawing. In this process, oversize hot rolled bars, which have been cleaned of scale, are drawn through dies to the required size. Cold drawing increases tensile and yield strength but decreases ductility. Cold drawing also increases torsional strength, surface hardness and wear resistance. Due to size limitations of the cold drawing process, large diameter bars are generally turned and polished, the hot roll rounds usually machine turned, rather than drawn, then abrasively polished. C1018, available in rounds, flats, squares and hexagons, has a relatively large size selection.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++=

    Since you mentioned you live in Alaska
    Try this guy themetalmerchant I buy a lot of metal from him. Most of the time he has best offer and free shipping.
    I use him when Nivert ( less then 1 mile from my home) doesn't have what I need or New Jersey Steel Baron.

    Rich

    PS:
    No I haven't made a ram for the RCBS I just got about 12 dies turned out blank so far.
    was going to make a shell holder type thing for the bottom of the dies to mount on the press.

    I want to make the sizer push through with a cut out about 1/3 the way up and rounded with a ball mill.
    That way when it gets derimmed and sized it will push up and through then fall right out the side.
    Kinda like the lee push through sizer but out the side instead of the top.

    I converted my 450 sizer a few years back to push through so I don't have to worry about flattening or taking the tips off of my cast rifle boolits.

  12. #32
    Boolit Master lead chucker's Avatar
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    root. If you make a shell holder type die holder for the ram how are you going to extract the work. I thought about doing something like that but couldn't figure out an extraction system so I went the way I did.
    Dont pee down my back and tell me its raining.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by lead chucker View Post
    I thought of making lapps from bolts but a member here said they are too hard. I would think cast iron would be to hard also. Let me know how they work, an adjustable lap would be nice. I made some 120 grain for my 300 black out a while back but they had tooo much tapper. I tried to fix it and it ended up over sized. I used the same length copper tube for my 110 gr I have now. 120 gr would be a nice weight for 7.62x39
    I am just a novice when it comes to machining, so I really have no first hand experience. Below, is a quote from the American Lap Co.

    Internal Laps Arbors and Expanders


    INTERNAL LAP
    Internal Laps are made from a special fine grain lapping cast iron. Cast iron is the ultimate lapping material, it's fine porous structure accelerates the lapping process. Each Internal Laps bore is precision machined then the outside diameter is ground on a master arbor to .0001" straightness. The lap becomes straight to under 5 millionths of an inch with use.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by lead chucker View Post
    root. If you make a shell holder type die holder for the ram how are you going to extract the work. I thought about doing something like that but couldn't figure out an extraction system so I went the way I did.
    I was thinking a ram on the top and smack it with one of those zinc hammers I sand casted last summer. the bullet would go up into the pointer with the pressure of the press. release the ram pressure and lightly tap the formed bullet out with the same ram that set the point.
    Kinda like removing a collet form your R8 spindle. My PM-25MV has the same R8 setup as your mill.
    And that was were that idea came from.
    Been smacking collets out per the instructions since August and haven't hurt a thread on the draw bar or a R8 collet so in theory it should work.

    Thinking something with a 1/4 turn lock on the top for the bullet former so with a quick turn it's loose and I can smack it then lock it back quick for the next one.

    Is there a easier way?
    I'd really do not want to start a 3rd set of dies.

    Rich
    Last edited by root; 12-12-2016 at 09:36 AM.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by lead chucker View Post
    root. If you make a shell holder type die holder for the ram how are you going to extract the work. I thought about doing something like that but couldn't figure out an extraction system so I went the way I did.
    The extraction system in this Niemi conversion is a bit bulky: http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l80/laveritt74/press/Redding_8_zpsh72mskmn.jpg

    I would propably go with one arm and an attachment close to the frame of the press. Could be ancored to the top with a guiding plate under the dies lock nut.
    Might make a prototype when time..

    S

  16. #36
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    If lead chucker dont mind, i could post something about the set that I am working with?

    Here goes:
    Made the die body with similar construction that the CH4D uses with some modifications.
    First. The body has 12 hash marks around it instead of knurling. Reason is simple: adjustment capability. As the thread is 14 turns in a inch, the distance bitween two hash marks is 1/12 from the turn=1:14:12=0.006 inches.. roughly. What comes to the top adjustment bolt, I changed the thread to metric. It is M14 with 1mm pitch. So one full turn is 1 mm that equals 0.039 inches.. roughly. If you multiply it with 12 you get 0.0033 bitween two hash marks.
    That would help to adjust the die itself as well as the position of the top punch.
    To help this, both of the locking nuts will have a hash mark in one corner.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    S

  17. #37
    Boolit Master lead chucker's Avatar
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    That's cool. I like the adjustment handle. Simple things like that I never think of.
    Dont pee down my back and tell me its raining.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by lead chucker View Post
    That's cool. I like the adjustment handle. Simple things like that I never think of.
    Ya
    I miss a lot of the simple stuff too. I've about got my spindexer setup. Still need to order a set of 5C collets for it. Then square it up to the mill table. That will go along way to making hash marks very very accurate on this.

    Rich

  19. #39
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    if the top of your die is set up for a knock out rod.
    you can just make an auto ejector by using two plates of metal and some all thread rod.
    you cut a hole for your presses ram.
    and a slit angle cut to the hole.
    then drill and tap the slit for a bolt to tension the bottom bar onto the ram.
    the all thread rod goes on the out side of the bar on both sides and is double nutted into place.
    the top bar comes down on the bolt in the die when you push the press handle back up and ejects the bullet.

  20. #40
    Boolit Master
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    Some delays in my quest for 30 dies. First: the water pump jammed in my car trashing almost totally the cam belt.. Car is in repair shop and the worst case scenario is that the walves hit the pistons.. Hopefully that is not the case.. Anyway. In machine shop I did not managed to get any machine time as they where making some rock drill heads (in the pic under my stuff). So I made core cutter and simple die for hydraulic press so that I Had a chance to squirt some lead wire. The cutter has 3 holes: one for wire suitable for .30 squirt die and one for .22. One is for .45 but I did not open it yet. The wire squirt die has a punch about .70 and squirt hole for . 265 wire. Later on I will open it and make thread so that I could use different inserts for different diameter wire. It took only about under 200 kg/square cm force to draw the wire so 15 ton hydraulic press was more than enough.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    S

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check