bare bones sks/ak bullet equipment

[Oklahoma Rebel]

What would be the bare minimum of things I need to start making sks (.311 for jacketed I think) bullets, considering I have the normal reloading press and lubrisizer? if that even helps at all... talk to me like I know absolutely nothing, because I don't except that I want to end up with a cup and core softpoint. thanks! Travis

[lead chucker]

You need swage dies and jacket making dies if you are using copper tubing for jackets and a core mold makes life easier. I use a rock chucker press. I had a special ram made for mine so it works more like a standard swage press. I'm guessing for all the dies and mold it would be at least $1,500.00. Instead of buying dies I spent my money on equipment to make them my self.

[BT Sniper]

Could be as easy as one bump die to take cheap 30 cal bullet and bump them up to perfect .311-.312 bullets in one stroke of the press. To make them from scratch takes a little more details then I can text on a tablet at the moment.

[GhostHawk]

You are trying to run before you can walk boy.

Slow down, I am not even sure you are safe reloading jacketed bullets.
You need to learn to be slow, carefull, methodical. This is not a area where shortcuts work.

Shortcuts here means destroyed gun, damaged flesh, possibly destroyed home.

Slow down. Buy some tulammo. Then find some Red Army Standard Elite ammo and start saving brass. Read here every day for a year. Get yourself some education. But take that drive out of gear before you hurt someone.

Abandon your preconceptions all ye who enter here.

If you want to sboot at Jacketed speeds and pressures you have a choice.
Shoot jacketed, or invest about 10 years and learn how to do it with cast.
But there are no shortcuts.

Back it up, go back to zero, back to the first question you asked.
And ask WHY? Why do I need to go that fast?

Pistol boolits at 800 feet per second are deadly.
Rifle boolits at 1200 to 1400 fps are deadlier, and at longer ranges.

So ask yourself, why am I asking the questions I'm asking instead of the question I SHOULD be asking? And what is that question?

AND SLOW DOWN! This is not a race, it is not a competition. If you can not do it safely, better to not do it at all. But I do NOT want to discourage you.

[root]

You are trying to run before you can walk boy.

Slow down, I am not even sure you are safe reloading jacketed bullets.
You need to learn to be slow, carefull, methodical. This is not a area where shortcuts work.

Shortcuts here means destroyed gun, damaged flesh, possibly destroyed home.

Slow down. Buy some tulammo. Then find some Red Army Standard Elite ammo and start saving brass. Read here every day for a year. Get yourself some education. But take that drive out of gear before you hurt someone.

Abandon your preconceptions all ye who enter here.

If you want to sboot at Jacketed speeds and pressures you have a choice.
Shoot jacketed, or invest about 10 years and learn how to do it with cast.
But there are no shortcuts.

Back it up, go back to zero, back to the first question you asked.
And ask WHY? Why do I need to go that fast?

Pistol boolits at 800 feet per second are deadly.
Rifle boolits at 1200 to 1400 fps are deadlier, and at longer ranges.

So ask yourself, why am I asking the questions I'm asking instead of the question I SHOULD be asking? And what is that question?

AND SLOW DOWN! This is not a race, it is not a competition. If you can not do it safely, better to not do it at all. But I do NOT want to discourage you.

This^^^

Been reloading for over 20 years and just started making my own swage equipment for .223

Very promising to say the least but it has a ways to go.
I'm at the part where I have the .22 shell swaged to .223 ( need to open the swage die up some more)
and the tip forming tool is almost where I want it ( 6th try)

Bullet swaged and tip formed with WW is coming in consistent at 58 Grn.

Soon as I get the forming tool for the tip made how I want it I plan on opening up the swage sizer for the .22 case and switching over to pure lead.

Started this last March and don't get to work on it as much as I'd like.
My biggest problem is getting empty .22 cases and the time to mess with my home made dies.

My goal is to have these 100% consistent and weigh in at 62 Grn since I have a few 30 cal cans of the ss109 bullet heads/tips.

Not doing this for the cost savings, or that I need the bullets.
I am doing this as it is the next logical step to reloading after 20+ years of casting and loading.

That and I have some very nice machines and tooling.
Just missing a shaper, and a 3d printer.

So YES Oklahoma Rebel PLEASE get some loading Exp. and equipment.
Then by all means move on to swaging.
Otherwise you are starting backwards as the bullet tip goes in last as one of the final steps.
So you will want to make that last as one of the final steps.

I'll be moving on to 308 dies once the 223 dies are perfect ( for me)
Again I don't need the 308 bullet heads I have bags and bags of the mil surplus pull down 147 and a ton of molds.

And last spring bought 400 Pcs of P90 brass off of a member here so I had the practice brass once I was ready.
Haven't even opened the flat rate box. Just labeled it and stuck it in with the rest of the empty brass boxes.

PATIENCE is going to be your biggest asset and best friend with anything the involves reloading Oklahoma Rebel.

Rich

[root]

What would be the bare minimum of things I need to start making sks (.311 for jacketed I think) bullets, considering I have the normal reloading press and lubrisizer? if that even helps at all... talk to me like I know absolutely nothing, because I don't except that I want to end up with a cup and core softpoint. thanks! Travis

Now to answer your original question.

Bare min. ?
A set of Dies from BT SNIPER or another maker of them.
and Presses to use the dies in.
Lots and lots of patience as mistakes will happen more in the start, but one sneaks up and rears its ugly head even for the most exp. loader.

BASICS ^^^

The other route is like me and others.
Lathe
Mill
indicators ( all different kinds)
tooling

Other machines help but are not needed.

And the MAD skillz to use them.
I am by no means a machinist.
What I am is a modern day blacksmith.

All that means is I will use any tool to speed up and make a item.
Anything a old skewl blacksmith can ruin with a file, I can ruin 3 times as fast with a grinder or sander

Hang around Oklahoma Rebel
A ton to learn here and even more to read.

Rich

[runfiverun]

at the minimum you need a jacket, a core, and a point form die.
that seems simple but the jacket and the core need to match each other.

off the top of my head the 125gr is a pretty good weight in the X39 case.
to get that weight you need a jacket of about .80 in length and a core in the 90gr area.

I'm not sure where to get the jacket that length but you could get an adjustable pinch trim die to make longer ones shorter or to trim down 5.7 cases.
the 5.7 cases would need a different core weight. [and a full anneal]

so to get the different core weights a core squirt die is needed. [or you just stick with one method]
and a cylinder of lead near the appropriate weight to be squirted down.
you can use a smaller cast boolit to form into shape.

then the cylinder of lead needs to be inserted into the jacket.
I have just dropped it in and point formed, I have also dropped it in and melted it into place.
[which required a cleaning of the scale before point forming]
and I have inserted it and smashed it in there also squaring up the base and slightly sizing the case closer to it's final diameter.
the last one is my preferred method but requires another die.

you have a couple of way's to get there but all of them are gonna cost [bout 3X] more than your SKS did.

[jdfoxinc]

Or you could get a pat marlin 7.63pb gas check maker and a Lee or Lyman 7.62 bullet mold and sizer.

[GhostHawk]

Or perhaps you could accept that you do not need to go 1900 fps.
Cheapest of all options. There are many paths, choose the one that fits you best.

[Oklahoma Rebel]

thanks, runfive, I was just curious, wasn't looking to get jumped on and have my knowledge,safety practices questiomed, and be told I am trying to take shortcuts. like I said I was just curious, so everyone else besides run,jdfox,, get your panties out of a bunch and stop assuming things and jumping to conclusions. and I hate being called "boy", at least by people that don't know me nor I them. good day

[Oklahoma Rebel]

runfive, am I out of line for being upset about how ghost and root responded? seems they know an awful lot about me and what I don't know and do know, i'll admit im not near a pro, only have a year or a little more in reloading,and casting, mixing alloys.you know what nevermind. im not going to bring you into this, I will not be back in the swaging forum.

[RogerDat]

All prices approx.:

• Gas Check mold from Lee - $21 their 155 grain is designed for SKS and their 160 grain is supposed to work well also.
• Casting with a higher quality alloy such as Lyman #2 or Hardball. $2 - $3 per pound. But did just see some Linotype in S&S for about $1.50 and that with plain gives you Hardball.
• Powder Coat with shake and bake to start, ES gun later if you want. $25 for good powder plus whatever a thrift store toaster oven costs.
• Thermometer to set baking oven correctly. $20
• Lee push through sizer - $21 but you may end up having to get a second one if size is not a good fit for your bore. Slug bore first?
• Gas checks - $22

Patience to work your loads up to cycle well, be accurate, and effective. Those that have been there and done that have posted a wealth of information to get you started. There may be "better" bullets from swaging or cup pointing but I'm thinking 30 caliber at 155 grains going 1600 fps would wreck a feral hogs day fairly well. NOE has a mold for SKS that I think can be ordered with cup pins if you don't think the bullet will work enough without it. People have reported using two types of lead in one cast to make a soft point, never tried pouring a dollop of soft lead in followed by hard lead. Seems like time for a bigger bullet or store bought before going through all that trouble.

[dverna]

Rebel.

I think Ghost was out of line so do not let that bother you...you are NOT being sensitive.

Anyway, before investing in bullet swaging, try gas checked lead bullets. A GC die is not expensive but you can buy a 1000 to start you off and see if a GC bullet does the job for you. I agree with RogerDat...a "hardball" alloy (92/6/2) would be a good place to start with alloy. I think Lars 2500 or Carnuba Red would be a good lube if you want to try traditional lubes before jumping into powder coating.

Don Verna

[RogerDat]

I have not tried the tip myself but wipe down of piston/tube and rod with Automatic Transmission fluid is supposed to make cleaning any lube or lead deposits much easier.

[runfiverun]

maybe a little bit.
but I don't think Ghost was being mean or Root either.
they just know that sometimes the younger members get a bit wrapped in projects they want to do but get in a bit over their head.
it's hard to talk someone through swaging an actual bullet with words or even step by step printed instructions.
and mistakes are expensive.

your heart rate will go up about 3X higher than running uphill after a wounded deer when you stick a bullet in a $500.00 point form die. [every time]

they were maybe a little gruff in their wording.
but I think it is more from reading your other threads and caring about keeping you pointed to the right track.
they probably were a little assuming but I don't think they were meaning to be mean about it.

[GhostHawk]

Did I drop a lot of steaming hot brutal honesty on your head that burned all the way through?

Yep, mea culpa.

I call em the way I see em.

I understand you, heck I used to be you. I have had so many close calls I wonder that I am still here.

No, none, zero intent to harm, insult, or anything else.

Did I rain on your parade, yeah.

You popped that I saw from starting one thread, then another then into the swagging area.
Were you even reading what you were told in any of them?

So, I got your attention the way that works. But, no intent to do anything but get you to slow down and THINK.

Short term the easy answer is go buy 100 rounds of a good brass cased boxer primed factory ammo and go shoot your SKS.

If you can not afford that, you can't afford any of it.
Take the pressure off, lance the boil, let it flow. Get the poison out.
Take a few days let it heal.

Forget about swagging for now, expensive way to make boolits. Can make really nice ones. But you can buy a LOT of ammo for what you will spend in equipment alone. Then there is the masters level course of education to learn how to use that stuff and not screw up.

Go back to cast lead. Make them big 2-3 thousandths.
But you have a problem, you can't afford good tool to measure it.

So go to harbor freight and buy their 8 dollar digital.

So if I was harsh, sorry.

I know sorry don't cut it.

You know why it hurt? Maybe I was getting a little close to the nerve there?

This is a great place, it will take you years to read it all. Much less to absorb it.

Slow down, grab a cold one or a cup of coffee and relax. Let it soak in.

No one here has it in for you. What we are concerned about are patterns of behavior.

I call em the way I see em, and I don't dump on someone often. Sorry that this time it was you.

Now, prove me wrong.

[Faret]

[root]

Well
Sorry Oklahoma Rebel
And I mean that.

Was not trying to dump on you.
But you just sounded to me like you were putting the horse before the cart that's all.

Give you a example
I sold a 618 lathe to a friend two years ago.
All he wants to do is thread barrels that lathe still sits in the very spot I left it in his garage never set up.
Friday I bought it back from him.

The reason was it didn't have quick change gear box BUT did have all the gears to change out the speeds for threading.
He took the money I gave him added to it and bought another 618 with a quick change gear box,.

after all HE JUST IS GOING TO THREAD BARRELS!

The best was he keeps telling me he wants a lathe to learn on.
He had one but wouldn't read the manual to change the gears. has to have the quick change.

Then while he was over here he asked me how I put the knurling on a tool I made.
But this guy is just going to thread barrels right?

He has no idea the setup time or tooling needed to thread a barrel or how to use a lathe.
But he is just going to thread barrels.
Easy right just slap the barrel in and thread it right?
POOF! magically centered tooling set everything is done and POOF barrel is threaded.

Well so he thinks.

As other said I kinda got that idea from you with other posts and like others just wanted you to know that there is a lot more to swaging a bullet then just throwing money around.
For all I know you have the money not the skills.
You have the skills not the money
you have the skills and the money just don't know where to start.
you just want to learn.

I really don't know I just wanted you to understand that swaging is the last step to reloading from a start to finish race.

Again please don't think I was dumping on you.
It just kinda came off to me that you were jumping in with both feet to swage up after reading some other stuff.

I kinda thought that I'd smoothed things over with the 2nd post I made in this thread for getting started.

Hell I just scrapped about 24 hrs of machine time on my 1st set of arbour press dies after reading "lead Chucker's" thread.
Here....http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...-30-cal-set-up

You'll see I posted in that and it's also a good thread for you to read as he walks through a home made set of 30 cal dies.

YOu will also see he has some machinery and skills
Or as I say
" I HAVE MAD SKILLZ AND ANGRY TOOLS ! I AIN'T AFRAID TO USE EITHER OF THEM!"
Well Lead Chucker has the mad skillz and angry tools and he's using them.
Further more he's shared info or paved the road I say.
So I'm following his lead. Why reinvent the wheel?

Anyways I apologize again if you took it the wrong way I though my 2nd post cleared that up.

Rich

[tiger762]

Hmmm, a reloading press would be sufficient as long as it is a stout (i.e. cast iron) press and not a Lee C-press

Need a source of lead for cores. The 0.8" 30cal jackets I got from RCECO a few years ago weigh around 30 grains. So you're looking at 90 grains for the core. Can go in one of two directions: Find a cast bullet of that weight that is the inside diameter of the jacket, or get a spool of 1/4" lead wire.

Once you have either cast lead core or cut length lead wire in hand, it's time to swage the core. This is where it gets turned into a cylinder of lead a little bit bigger than the core started off as and most importantly, excess lead is bled off out the side of the core swage die.

At this point you now have a true (diameter, length, weight) core ready to be placed inside the jacket. The next die is the core seat. Its job is to make the jacket swell out to finished bullet diameter, then pull back slightly. When the jacket pulls back, it is now tightly gripping the core.

You now have an open jacket with lead inside that is at bullet diameter and at desired weight. Last step is to point form. I wear nitrile glove while swaging, and at this point I'll take a little bit of swaging lube on my fingers and roll the jacket/core between my fingers and drop it in the point form die. Don't use too much. You'll learn the "feel" after a few hundred or so. What will be ejected from the point form die will be the finished bullet. Might have to clean any leftover swage lube off of them.

That's about it for flat-base open-tip rifle bullets.

What would be the bare minimum of things I need to start making sks (.311 for jacketed I think) bullets, considering I have the normal reloading press and lubrisizer? if that even helps at all... talk to me like I know absolutely nothing, because I don't except that I want to end up with a cup and core softpoint. thanks! Travis

[Oklahoma Rebel]

no , in fact im not even planning on swaging, just wanted to know how much equipment was involved in the beginning, FMJ's are cheaper then swaging