Paper Patching the RCBS 165 Silhouette Boolit in .308 Winchester

[MUSTANG]

Paper patching using Smokeless Powder has interested me for some number of years. I’ve tried my hand off and on over the last three years with terrible to poor results each time. I’ve read what seems like ALL the posts in this forum on the subject here on the Cast Boolits Forum, some numerous times. Success until recently (2016 period) was gauged in going from keeping all 5 or 10 round “Groups” in the same county, to at least hitting a 16” x 16” target board with at least 5 of 10 rounds. I have committed myself to achieving some level of expertise, and not abandoning the effort yet again.

The initial string of posts will be somewhat an Archive of experiences over the last year. This thread will center on one Boolit, an RCBS 165 Sil, with testing being in .308 Winchester. Powder will be W760. I have multiple rifles in .308W / 7.62 x 51 so this platform allows me to eventually try and achieve some level of accuracy with PP in y, several rifles, as opposed to a dedicated single rifle (yes I recognize that I’ll have to develop new loads for each rifle based on it’s unique chamber and barrel condition). The initial Test Rifle I will be using will be a Remington 700 ADL Varmint Barreled .308 Winchester wearing it’s original plastic stock. It is outfitted with a Japanese made Center Point scope variable 4-16X , with MilDot reticle.

I worked up the following table to capture and compare past results in 2016 when I began to have a comparatively higher level of success. Efforts will focus on changing one area at a time to see if improvements are occurring. Data such as chronographed velocities, deviation, energy, etc… will no be captured until acceptable groups are occurring.

As I am becoming a “More Seasoned” shooter; the eyes are fading so even with a Scope I may not achieve MOA or Sub-MOA; but that will wait for a later date to determine when “Good Enough” is achieved in this effort, at that time there are “Many Moulds yet to Go” so I may move on to a similar thread for another mould/s.



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Useful comments are appreciated. I would like to keep this thread clean, focused on the RCBS 165 Sil in 308Winchester so future readers can apply to that narrow effort. Any past tests resulting in “Terrible” Groups were not included as they do not move the goal forward.

[MUSTANG]

This early effort used cash register receipt paper that was wrapped around an RCBS 165Sil Boolit then sized to .309.


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[MUSTANG]

This effort utilized an RCBS 165Sil that was sized to .309 after wrapping with "Costco Butter Paper". The paper came from around sticks of butter bought at Costco. Requires cleaning the paper with a paper towel to remove traces of the butter. Paper can go rancid over time of butter is not adequatly cleaned from it. May or may not go down this path further in the future.


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[MUSTANG]

This effort with Paper Patch using Costco Parchment Paper was better, but was restricted to a 5 round test.


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[MUSTANG]

This is the best group I have accomplished Paper Patching; but it is only a 5 shot group. Used a Parchment Paper (Costco Baking Parchment Paper) and the tail glued with a Craft Glue.



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[MUSTANG]

This group was highly encouraging. Again used Parchment Paper from Costco (taken from a Roll of Baking Parchment Paper). This paper is difficult to Paper Patch with, as it has a silicone coating on one side. Soaking in water is preferred method to wet it, but the paper patch curls and has to be straightened out and placed back into water soak. The silicone keeps it from adhering to itself, making a Cigarette Roller necessary for me to get the patch tight. Also, I have to glue the tail down with a Crafts Glue designed for Parchment Paper. As you can see, when I shot a 10 Round Group, the size increased with greater number of shots fired.



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[MUSTANG]

A consistent but disappointing pattern is occurring. Portions of the 10 Shot string are fair groups, but a few shots dramtically open the overall Group. In this test I have switched paper to Cash Register Receipt Paper. This test the boolit was sized to .308; wrapped with the paper, then sized again to .309.



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[MUSTANG]

I switched paper in this test. Numerous threads have had post where the use of tracing paper was advocated. I ordered some Acadamie Tracing Paper from Amazon (Same paper carried by Wal-Mart I believe). Though this could be a good performer; but proved to be disappointing in this test. I do note that this paper is much weaker than the Cash Register Paper which is the same thickness. It is much much weaker than the Costco Parchment Paper.



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At first the group looks as if it should be pursued further; BUT 5 of the 10 Rounds failed to hit the 16" x 16" backer board.

[MUSTANG]

My next testing will be made using the RCBS 165Sil boolit; sized to .308 in a Lee die - sized again in an NOE .305 Die - and then final sizing down to .302 in an NOE die. The boolits will be wrapped twice in Cash Register Tape (~ .002 thick), dried, very lightly lubed with an alcohol lanolin mixture lube, sized to .308, and then dried 12 to 24 hours before loading.

[longbow]

I won't be an awful lot of help here as I am not an accomplished PP boolit shooter but I do have some experience and had some good success with what I did.

Not sure about your paper selection. I would not recommend slick parchment paper or butter paper. What was recommended in the "old days" was 100% cotton or linen rag though it seems that many are using standard printer paper with good results. The other commonly used paper is the old green par printer paper. And another is tracing paper.

I have used good cotton or linen bond paper and tracing paper with pretty good success.

This may have some info for you:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...4782-Paper-101

There are also a number of threads on what has worked and not worked for others so a search may help if you haven't already done that. I see you said you have read many posts so that is likely covered.

Also, the NRA style boolits were 0.301" for standard .30 cal. I note you are using 0.302" which may not be an issue at only 0.001" larger but just saying.

Some folks size after patching and some say to patch to slightly over groove diameter with no sizing after patching. How thick is the paper you are using and how much sizing is it seeing? I am thinking your final size should be same as for GG boolits at 0.001" to 0.002" over groove diameter or use a paper that results in a little over groove diameter after patching with no final sizing.

How hard is your alloy? If you are pushing the boolits fairly hard you need a fairly hard alloy of at least ACWW, not soft lead.

Are you crimping? Crimping is bad with PP boolits.

Anyway, that's about all I've got but there are others with way more experience than I have that I am sure can help out.

Longbow

[MUSTANG]

Longbow:

Thank for the review and comments.

(1) the BHN for these are 22.7, down stream may try some softer boolits; these are from a water quenched lot cast this summer.
(2) I attempted the tracing paper as identified in post #8, that effort resulted in poor results. May try again later, but that paper is on hold.
(3) On my future test efforts I post I'll also be using the same Spread Sheet/Data Sheet as attached in each post 2-8. These contain a wide range of information on the test Shoot such as BHN, OAL, Paper used, techniques for PP'ing, powder and .....
(4) Posting the failures (except those that never hit target) will allow other readers to see quite a bit of data on each test with my results so they can follow and adapt for their own efforts.

[longbow]

I wonder if at 22+ BHN your boolits may be too hard? They are GG boolits though not slicks so paper slippage shouldn't be an issue but maybe they are too hard to easily engrave resulting in damage to the paper.

Might be worth trying some ACWW for comparison.

What I found was that a boolit of bore diameter to a thou or so over and then patching to a little over groove diameter with cotton bond paper worked for me with ACWW.

I am surprised there haven't been more replies so far. I am not an avid paper patcher but I am interested and looking forward to comments/info from others and your success stories.

Keep at it, you get 'er beat.

Longbow

[OverMax]

Best to get the BHN factor of your lead down a little. 10 to 12 BHN would be near perfect for patching. 22 BHN is harder than pure linotype at (19) and near pewter's hardness of (23) BHN.
Tip: >Do not use water drop boolits intended for paper patching<
No need to wonder why no comments. >Were all here >and reading this OPs threading as his experiment in patching moves along.

[oldblinddog]

Size to .310", use a lower hardness level, and use printer paper.

[barrabruce]

Don't jump the bullet load out to touch lands or throat.

[Hardcast416taylor]

I totally agree with posts #14 and #15 as to wrapping and seating. For my 7.62 Mosin I use RCBS 30 180 FN as cast with standard WW AC. I wet wrap the as cast boolet with ordinary copier paper and air dry 24 hrs. I then light lube with JPW and size to ,314 in a push thru sizer. Using issue Mil. sights I can keep a 5 shot string in a 6" grouping at 100 paces, good enough for this old man`s eyes and an issue trigger Mosin rifle. I seat the PP boolet out to touch the rifling and they still function out of the mag. well in my rifle.Robert

[MUSTANG]

For the test shoot on 29 November 2016:

I changed the Paper to Cash Register Paper. Sized the RCBS 165 Sil boolits to 0.302 in an NOE Nose die, wrapped the boolit with Cash Register Tape (~ 0.002 thick) moistened in saliva and rolled on a pad. After boolit dried 24 hours it was lubed with Teflon Spray lube, let dry for 10 minutes, then sized in a Lee 0.309 Sizer die. Neck of Brass was expanded with an RCBS 0.308 neck die – slight bell on mouth.



(Full Load Data is attached above. Click and enlarge to see data.)

[MUSTANG]

For the test shoot on 2 December 2016:

I changed the Paper to Costco Parchment Paper. Sized the RCBS 165 Sil boolits to 0.308 in a Lee Sizing die, wrapped the boolit with Parchment Paper (~ 0.002 thick) soaked for 10 minutes in water (Paper curls when dropped in water – You need to straighten it out and place back in water prior to use), then hand rolled on a pad. Tail glued with Pergamano brand Pergo Glue (Find it on Amazon). After boolit dried 24 hours it was lubed with Teflon Spray lube, let dry for 10 minutes, then sized in a Lee 0.311 Sizer die. Neck of Brass was expanded with an RCBS 0.310 neck die – slight bell on mouth.

Win760 Loads Paper Patched RCBS 308 Sil - 161202.pdf

(Full Load Data is attached above. Click PDF to see data.)





As a round up of the Testing Data I have captured to date in this effort, see the Table Below.



(Load Data Comparison Table is attached above. Click and enlarge to see data.)
I added a column for the Neck sizer dimension to the table to see how that additional information plays out in analysis of data. Analysis of the spread sheet to date is interesting to note:

(1) Costco Parchment Paper appears to provide a better grouping, but has more data collected.
(2) Cash Register tape seems to have significantly larger groups (and patch failure?)
(3) Review of other files for other boolits indicates that my .004 thick printer paper behaves similar to Cash Register Tape in (2) above.
(4) Butter Wrapper Paper has similar properties to Parchment Paper (wider Groups?)

I will change a variety of parameters and see where performance goes in future testing. I measured the land diameter for the Remington 700 yesterday and it is 0.300.

[barrabruce]

You stated that you slobbered on the cash register tape.

There was a discussion about that quite a while ago.

Apparently the chemicals that make "the printing or thermo what ever it is thing ",is not the sort of stuff you want to be ingesting and was stated that dipping it in water was a more healthier choice.

According to those in the know.





I

[MUSTANG]

You stated that you slobbered on the cash register tape.

There was a discussion about that quite a while ago.

Apparently the chemicals that make "the printing or thermo what ever it is thing ",is not the sort of stuff you want to be ingesting and was stated that dipping it in water was a more healthier choice.

According to those in the know.





I

Interesting. Seems everything in life is out to do us in these days. We may have left the jungle, but nature still has a part to play I guess.

I do know that if that source of paper is easy to get too wet, and will tear rapidly. Currently, Costco Parchment Paper has performed better than cash register tape so we'll see how it may be made to perform better in my testing.