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Thread: Shhh - the Marines say be very very quiet

  1. #1
    Boolit Grand Master Artful's Avatar
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    Shhh - the Marines say be very very quiet

    http://www.businessinsider.com/us-ma...talion-2016-11

    US Marine Corps experimenting with silencing every single gun in an infantry battalion



    In a series of experiments this year, units from 2nd Marine Division will be silencing every element of an infantry battalion -- fromM4 rifles to .50 caliber machine guns.

    The commanding general of 2nd Marine Division, Maj. Gen. John Love, described these plans during a speech toMarines at the Marine Corps Association Ground Dinner this month near Washington, D.C.

    The proof-of-concept tests, he said, included Bravo Company, 1st Battalion, 2nd Marines, which began an Integrated Training Exercise pre-deployment last month at Marine Corps Air-Ground Combat Center Twentynine Palms.

    "What we've found so far is it revolutionizes the way we fight," Love toldMilitary.com. "It used to be a squad would be dispersed out over maybe 100 yards, so the squad leader couldn't really communicate with the members at the far end because of all the noise of the weapons. Now they can actually just communicate, and be able to command and control and effectively direct those fires."

    Chief Warrant Officer 5 Christian Wade, the division's gunner, or infantry weapons officer, said the Lima companies in two other battalions -- 3rd Battalion, 6th Marines, and 3rd Battalion, 8th Marines -- now had silencers, or suppressors, on all their rifles, including theM27 infantry automatic rifles.

    All units are set to deploy in coming months. The combat engineer platoons that are attached to these units and will deploy with them will also carry suppressed weapons, he said.

    Suppressors work by slowing the escape of propellant gases when a gun is fired, which drastically reduces the sound signature. Used by scout snipers and special operations troops to preserve their stealth, the devices are also valuable for their ability to minimize the chaos of battle, enabling not only better communication but also improved situational awareness and accuracy.

    via U.S. Marine Corps

    "It increases their ability to command and control, to coordinate with each other," Wade told Military.com. "They shoot better, because they can focus more, and they get more discipline with their fire."

    The noise of gunfire can create an artificial stimulus that gives the illusion of effectiveness, he said. When it's taken away, he explained, Marines pay more attention to their shooting and its effect on target.

    "They've got to get up and look, see what effect they're having on the enemy because you can't hear it," he said.

    He added that suppressors were already in common use by near-peer militaries, including those of Russia and China.

    Wade said he is working on putting suppressors on the Marines' M249 light machine gun and M240G medium machine gun, using equipment from Marine Corps Forces Special Operations Command. The third and final objective will be the suppression of the .50 caliber heavy machine gun, he said.



    As the units conduct training and exercises with suppressors, 2nd Marine Division is collaborating with the Marine Corps Warfighting Lab to collect and aggregate data. Weapons with suppressors require additional maintenance and cleaning to prevent fouling, and the cost, nearly $700,000 to outfit an infantry battalion, might give planners pause.

    But Wade said he will continue to gather data for the next year-and-a-half, following the units as they deploy. And he expects the idea to have gained significant traction among Marine Corps leadership by then, he said.

    "When I show how much overmatch we gain … it will have sold itself," he said.


    Read the original article on Military.com. Copyright 2016.
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    je suis charlie

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  2. #2
    Boolit Master

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    Outstanding!
    More "This is what happened when I,,,,," and less "What would happen if I,,,,"

    Last of the original Group Buy Honcho's.

    "Dueling should have never been made illegal in this country. It settled lots of issues between folks."- Char-Gar

  3. #3
    Boolit Master NoAngel's Avatar
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    Add this to the possibility of passing the hearing protection act and we could see suppressor prices plummet to near nothing.

    This would be a great thing.
    When dealing with islam one should always ask themselves: "What would Leonidas do?"

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    Boolit Master



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    Very interesting...
    "Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same......." - Ronald Reagan

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    Boolit Buddy

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    Except that any enemy won't be using suppressed weapons, so our troops that are trained to fight in a quiet battlespace may suddenly be at a disadvantage when the enemies weapons cause noise that disrupts the troops. Perhaps.
    Pain heals, chicks dig scars, glory ... lasts forever.
    Retired USN
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  6. #6
    Boolit Master



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    Quote Originally Posted by scorpion8 View Post
    except that any enemy won't be using suppressed weapons, so our troops that are trained to fight in a quiet battlespace may suddenly be at a disadvantage when the enemies weapons cause noise that disrupts the troops. Perhaps.
    really! !!!!

  7. #7
    Boolit Master



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    How about an integrated suppressed for that no good 9mm. One that could be holstered.
    I carried it, my opinion of the gun.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion8 View Post
    Except that any enemy won't be using suppressed weapons, so our troops that are trained to fight in a quiet battlespace may suddenly be at a disadvantage when the enemies weapons cause noise that disrupts the troops. Perhaps.
    So. Match a suppressed unit against an suppressed unit in field trials, see what happens. Wade claims it will sell itself.
    Warning: I know Judo. If you force me to prove it I'll shoot you.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion8 View Post
    Except that any enemy won't be using suppressed weapons, so our troops that are trained to fight in a quiet battlespace may suddenly be at a disadvantage when the enemies weapons cause noise that disrupts the troops. Perhaps.
    Silencers reduce noise, sound, dust, and flash signature. Makes the shooter harder to hit.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master NoAngel's Avatar
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    It also confuses the enemy. The first few shots are going to sound like they are coming from the opposite direction. Well, to those who are still alive after the first shots anyway.
    When dealing with islam one should always ask themselves: "What would Leonidas do?"

  11. #11
    Boolit Buddy
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    When I was in the M-1's and then the M-14's were bad enough but when they issued those short barreled M-16's hearing problems sky rocketed. Be fore, most of us didn't get VA hearing aids till in our 50's or 60's, now after Iraq and Afghanistan we have kids in their 20's wearing hearing aids, mine are about $1800 each, some of the newer ones I am told are closer to 5 grand, it's killing VA's budget along with the ied injuries, every politician before voting to send our troops in harms way should be required to spend a day in a VA rehab hospital

  12. #12
    Boolit Grand Master Artful's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parson View Post
    Every politician before voting to send our troops in harms way should be required to spend a day in a VA rehab hospital
    Irregardless of voting they should go visit those that have served.
    je suis charlie

    It is better to live one day as a LION than a dozen days as a Sheep.

    Thomas Jefferson Quotations:
    "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."

  13. #13
    Boolit Buddy
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    About time.

    There are real tactical advantages to suppressors even with super sonic loads.

    I'd advise against buying MIL SURPLUS cans though if they ever hit the market LOL
    I've seen what they do to them out in the field.

    my hearing aids cost me 5K for the pair.
    No they are not cheap.

    Rich

  14. #14
    Boolit Master



    TNsailorman's Avatar
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    Only question I have is--why did it take so long to arrived at this decision?

  15. #15
    Boolit Grand Master Artful's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNsailorman View Post
    Only question I have is--why did it take so long to arrived at this decision?
    prej·u·dice
    ˈprejədəs/
    noun

    1.
    preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience.

    "English prejudice against Silencers"

    synonyms: preconceived idea, preconception, prejudgment "Public prejudices about silencers projected by Hollywood showing used by criminals only"
    je suis charlie

    It is better to live one day as a LION than a dozen days as a Sheep.

    Thomas Jefferson Quotations:
    "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."

  16. #16
    Boolit Master
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    If it makes our troops better, more effective--just find the money for the upgrade. Just think--nighttime ops and suppressed firepower--that's flat spooky.

  17. #17
    Boolit Buddy
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    I bet they will be working out new tactics before electric/ray guns are introduced

    If so they can do the same thing with Air Soft arms for fraction of the cost LOL.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion8 View Post
    Except that any enemy won't be using suppressed weapons, so our troops that are trained to fight in a quiet battlespace may suddenly be at a disadvantage when the enemies weapons cause noise that disrupts the troops. Perhaps.
    They're not putting suppressors on their morters and howitzers, so they won't be practicing on a quiet battle space.

    I'm for anything that aids our troops in battle and reduces injuries during training and battle. It would be a no brainer if the government weren't involved.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master
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    So no cost associated with the additional length?

  20. #20
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimB.. View Post
    So no cost associated with the additional length?
    Since we're talking about supersonic loads still, the best bet is likely a lightweight suppressor like the Surefire 556 Mini. 3-4" on the muzzle is very little relative to the length of an M4.

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