Need Advise On 35 Whelen

[brasshog]

I have a Rem 700 Classic chambered in 35 Whelen that I am beginning to load for. My RCBS-35-200-FN mold came in today and I hope to start casting a few up tomorrow. I plan on using my COWW+2%Tin stockpile for the majority of the rounds. Hunting season opens in two weeks and I'm trying to load up for a trip or two to the range before opening day (Thanksgiving). Atm the powder funds are a little low so I was wondering what powder to use out of my current stock (H322, BLC2, & IMR3031) that would be best for this round. The goal is simply to come up with a hunting load capable of 2MOA or less since my shots will be under 50 yards most likely (deep swamp hunting). I have scoured the internet and this site and have not resolved this issue so far. From what I've read I should be around 1900-2200 fps for a respectable load with a BHN of 12+ or so. My load books (1990's editions) do not list cast boolits. Looking at Lyman's 48th I see that 3031 can be used for 39.0gr (2094 fps)-50.0gr+ (2594 fps) for the #358430 (195gr) and 50.0gr (2558 fps)-58.5gr (2860 fps) for the #358315 (204gr). I would like some advise as to the alloy that I'm thinking of using, which of my current powders to choose, and a correct velocity range for hunting (small deer and hogs up to 300lbs) with said alloy if anyone has any suggestions so that I might maximize my time at the range. Also, if anyone has any BLC2 data for this boolit it would be appreciated.

[BigMagShooter]

water drop your bullets, use the imr 3031

[CHeatermk3]

I agree with BMS's post above but I think you'll have better luck keeping your velocity under 2000fps.

[35 shooter]

Of the powders you have on hand, i'd go with the 3031.
I highly reccomend trying imr4350 for the whelen if you have a chance to pick some up in the future.

I use straight ww at this time in mine and had to heat treat to get accuracy much past 2000 fps., or water drop.

[brasshog]

I will pick up some new powder after the holidays. I had forgotten about some IMR4198 that I had tucked away. I have never tried IMR4350. I'm always up for a challenge. I guess it's also time santa brought me some new load books. My newest one is from 1994 I think lol. Thanks for the info and suggestions.

[35 shooter]

brasshog,

With the imr4350 you probably won't find much cast data, but i started with 48 gr. and worked up slowly in my 35 whelen.
I found very accurate loads at 54 to 54 1/2 gr. with 200, 230, 250, and 280 gr. boolits.

54 1/2 gr. shot best with the 200 gr. boolits and 54 seemed best for all the rest.

I did finally find cast data for aa 4350 after i had worked up my loads and it coincided with what i had already worked up to with the imr 4350.

48 gr. ran 1950 to 2000 fps. with all boolit weights and 54 to 54 1/2 gr. was 2200 to 2230 fps.

I'd be interested in any results you get with the 4198, as i've never tried it myself, but am curious about it.

Btw, accuracy with the 48 gr.imr 4350 loads runs 1.5" or less with unweighed boolits @ 105 yds. 5 shot groups.
It will do the same at 54 to 54 1/2 gr. in my TC Encore.
I didn't find much in between those numbers, but each rifle differs a bit.

Again, i had to harden or heat treat the boolits to get accuracy past 2000 fps. Some water drop from the mould to do the same thing.
I like to ht and then dunk them in water on the tray from the oven.

Good luck with your whelen
35 shooter.

[OnHoPr]

My own personal idiosyncrasy is with the slower powders, especially if you are wanting to use a malleable alloy. You say load up for a trip or two, one trip will find a load and the next will sight in possibly. I'd try the BL-C 2 with the same powder charges of what the min. jword bullets are stated for. Maybe 2 gr lower, the min, 2 gr over, and 4 gr over, but not up to max, just for the 12, 16, or 20 test rounds. Should be a wide safe spectrum to possibly give you minute of deer @ 100 yds maybe better. You never know using the faster powders with soft alloy about actually getting the acceptable accuracy for the hunt on just one range trip.

[brasshog]

I recently acquired the rifle from a friend who had no ammo for it. The last store that sold whelen ammo in my area quit doing so about three years ago. Bass pro "might" have some in stock but for twenty bucks in gas, $40+ a box, and a three hour drive I would rather cast something hence why I'm using what I have atm. Most of my shots are well within 30-50 yards in the swamp. After turkey day weekend the season is out for almost a month even with a quota so I'll have some better range time prior to that for load development. My only other rifle is an AR-15 and I'd rather not hunt hogs with it up close due to the caliber size (5.56) and the five round magazine limit. I had planned on some range time earlier this month but my daughter flew in and stayed with us for almost two weeks hence why I'm broke and behind the curve on this lol. Thanks for all of the help.

[paul h]

You don't happen to have any 2400 do you? I have to check my notes but as I recall (it's been close to 20 years and I sold the rifle 10 years ago) I was getting ~1800 fps with 200 gr cast using ~18 gr of 2400 and 5 shot groups at 50 yds were 1".

The potential problem of using slower powders and throttling them back is getting inconsistent ignition which leads to poor accuracy. You can even risk hangfires at lower temperatures. It's a bit disconcerting when your load goes click, pause, bang. I had a load with Varget in my 350 rigby that produced steller accuracy with temps in the 60's but when I shot the same load when the mercury dipped into the 30's I had the click, pause, bang. Switching from CCI 200's to mag primers cured the hangfires, but loads went from moa to 2-3 moa

[brasshog]

I don't believe I do but I'll look in the morning. A lot of my other powders that I didn't list are because I have less than a half pound remaining and some are over 22 years old.

[OnHoPr]

You shouldn't have any problems of what I suggested. One reason why I only mentioned 2 grs less than minimum. The 350 rigby is a very large case and Varget would seem like a fast powder for that case. I myself am careful go to low with my 300 WM as I have experienced the pop boom effect especially with backing off on the slower powders like MagPro and Reloader 22, the magnum powders. BLC-2 and varget are not mag powders.

[paul h]

Nothing wrong with powders that are 20-30 years old so long as they haven't degraded. I still a little bit of ~30 y/o unique that works great.

I was surprised at the click boom loads with Varget in the 350 as it's a mid range speed powder and I thought not hard to light off. While the 350 Rigby is a larger case than the whelen, it's not that much larger. My top loads with 250 gr jacketed bullets in the whelen were 58 gr of Varget, in the 350 Rigby I was using 66 gr of Varget.

I never had a problem with Unique or 2400 in either the whelen or the rigby and put 100's of cast bullets down range through both rifles.

[brasshog]

Update- I loaded up 69 rounds and headed for the range. The range had a SW wind (shooting eastward) at approximately 10-15mph. The RCBS 35-200-FN boolits (average 212gr assembled) were seated to within .030 of the lands (just hid the gas check) and loaded with IMR3031. Starting load was 39.0gr (60% load density) all the way to 44.5gr in half grain increments for five shot groups. Results are below. I don't have my list in front of me but this is about how it went. Boolits were sized .358 with BAC lube and water dropped COWW+2% Tin and aged about three weeks. Rifle is iron sighted and the distance was 100 yards. Groups are measured minus called fliers. Estimated velocity at 39.0gr is 2092fps and load data is from Lyman #48. Max load is 58.5gr per manual. There were no pressure signs of any kind noted. Rifle was cleaned with zero leading noted. One trip to the range with a 2MOA or less group found in less than 100 rounds fired without any leading or pressure signs. Mission accomplished The next trip to the range will start where I left off and continue working this load.

Charge (rounds fired) Group size (approximate)
39.0gr (x10) 8" groups
40.0gr (x5) 6" groups
41.0gr (x5) 4.25" groups
42.0gr (x5) 3" groups
43.0gr (x5) 2.5" groups
44.0gr (x4) 1.25" groups

43.5gr IMR 3031



44.0gr IMR3031

[35 shooter]

Looking good at 44 gr. Hope it holds up for you.

That's some fine iron sight shooting @ 100 yds. Back when i worked with a 200 gr. and imr 3031, i found another accuracy node up around 47 to 48gr. Primers were flattening a bit around 51 gr.

[brasshog]

Thanks 35. I'm hoping to get back out to the range before too long and keep working it up. I had expected the accuracy to have fallen off by 44gr hence why I stopped loading there. I wasn't going to try to run the whole range of the possible loading at once. Now that it is sighted in I'm hoping to start back at 43gr and work up to max accuracy out at 200 yards at a different shooting range in Alabama. I want to make sure that she's good and stable beyond 100 yards and the extended range will widen those tightening groups up for better comparison. The replacement sights that I had purchased have bottomed out on elevation so either I'll get the original which I dislike, change the front sight (most likely), or shim the system. All shots were about 2" low with maximum elevation.

[35 shooter]

Yeah, the groups will probably open again as you move up from 44 gr., but you have plenty of case capacity left for it to come back in somewhere further up the ladder....if your alloy will take the speed.

As i've said before mine is straight ww, but ht'd to 27 bhn.
You should be good to go for hunting right where you are, but won't hurt a thing to try and see what happens....well, except for burning up primers and powder lol.