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Thread: Why Not Straight Alox?

  1. #1
    Boolit Mold


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    Post Why Not Straight Alox?

    Hello, new member here, from Kansas City, MO. Great forum, really caught my eye. New to casting pistol bullets, 20+ years ago cast my own .54 Lee R.E.A.L. bullets. Don't remember using Alox, or how I lubed them.

    Been reading and following Ben's thread on his Liquid Lube recipe, but unfortunately too late in Johnson Wax department as I found the product discontinued. Searched for some all over Kansas City to no avail. Thought about it though, and why can't I just use Lee liquid Alox as intended without a solvent additive? I heated my bottle up and applied some Alox to my 200 gr SWC's, tumbled and let dry tip up overnight on wax paper. Loaded and fired them next day in my .45 SA Trophy Match and they were wonderful, accurate as I needed but also cleaned the bore with one dry patch on a brass jag! Couldn't be more happy.

    My question is what advantage does the liquid Johnson's Wax provide or improve upon the standard method of using Alox straight up? I guess I don't feel a need to improve upon straight Alox. Am I missing something here? Thanks in advance!

    Tony Z.
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  2. #2
    Boolit Master
    Tom W.'s Avatar
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    I have used Lee liquid alox for years, the only problem was gumming up my seating die. I also tried plain old Johnson's paste wax as a tumble lube and found it much more to my liking. I still prefer my lubrisizer and white label lubes carnauba red.
    Tom
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  3. #3
    Boolit Master
    DerekP Houston's Avatar
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    Benefits I've found of bll, easier to coat with thinner consistency, coating dries hard instead of sticky, doesn't appear to gum up my seating die, and less smoke at the range.

    I've still got 6 more bottles of Alox to use up either way.
    My feedback page if you feel inclined to add:
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...raight-Shooter

    Thanks Yall!

  4. #4
    Boolit Master Oklahoma Rebel's Avatar
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    LLA does not last all the way down my 20" barrel, even with 2 coats of the stuff. Not to mention it smokes like hell. I will definetly stick with my recipe and my star lubrisizer! I just posted my home-made lube recipe under that title,and as far as clean, I only clean maybe once a month. I have tried to clean the barrel after one session, (about a box of ammo or a little more) and there is nothing to clean, except a protective layer of lube. so I'm good!
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  5. #5
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    JPW can be found in pound cans at Lowes. Dissolve one pound into 1 quart of mineral spirits and use like LLA. Or use 1 pint each of mineral spirits and acetone for faster drying, requires forced air ventilation and respirator or place outdoors to dry.
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  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    Straight mule snot will work fine.
    The advantages of 45-45-10 are: thinner, goes a longer way, no build-up on dies, barely visible on boolit when used correctly. Bottom line, it works great.
    JPW is definitely still made.

  7. #7
    Boolit Grand Master GhostHawk's Avatar
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    Pure alox tends to be thick, especially if it has been sitting around for a while.

    Ben's liquid lube is thinner than water, and for most cases I count drops, as in less than 20 per 50 boolits.

    Swirl, mix, remove lid, set in front of fan 10 minutes, repeat, last time they get dumped out onto a small cardboard flat.

    Within a half hour they are dry enough to load. Can't do that with straight alox.

    Try it both ways, you can see the difference. See it on the targets also.
    Thinner more uniform coat = increased accuracy.

    Want it even better? Melt 2% by weight per batch of Carnuaba wax flakes. Just 2% no more, nor much less.
    Bores so shiny you won't believe it, same great easy lube to make, use, reasonably priced, and easy to make.

    BLL rocks. But don't take my word for it, do your own tests.

  8. #8
    Boolit Buddy Phlier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GhostHawk View Post
    Pure alox tends to be thick, especially if it has been sitting around for a while.

    Ben's liquid lube is thinner than water, and for most cases I count drops, as in less than 20 per 50 boolits.

    Swirl, mix, remove lid, set in front of fan 10 minutes, repeat, last time they get dumped out onto a small cardboard flat.

    Within a half hour they are dry enough to load. Can't do that with straight alox.

    Try it both ways, you can see the difference. See it on the targets also.
    Thinner more uniform coat = increased accuracy.

    Want it even better? Melt 2% by weight per batch of Carnuaba wax flakes. Just 2% no more, nor much less.
    Bores so shiny you won't believe it, same great easy lube to make, use, reasonably priced, and easy to make.

    BLL rocks. But don't take my word for it, do your own tests.
    That's just what I'm looking for. Carnauba has the highest melting point of the waxes, and here in the desert south west, as you may well have heard, it gets hot. I'm going to try your carnauba variation to both increase the overall hardness of the coating and also hopefully make it more hot weather friendly.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master LAKEMASTER's Avatar
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    i may be wrong, but ive read the main reason for BLL is the fact it os mush stronger then alox.

    bullets dont stick together, arent sticky, and some people push bullets to un-heard-of speeds without leading.

    it makes alox, " better" for those who need it to be
    Lake Havasu City... Born and raised

  10. #10
    Boolit Master


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    I've been using alox years, allow them to cure fully, and I've never found them sticky. Florida weather, so 363 days of summer and high humidity.

  11. #11
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Why not straight Alox? To much smoke and smell. I can deal w/ the smoke but Alox has a wretched odor. BLL alleviates the smell and smoke is drastically reduced.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    When I tumble lube, I use a little alox along with a small amount of Mother's paste car wax. Been doing this for quite awhile now. I've heard some say that car wax might have an abrasive in it but haven't noticed anything. Works well for me. Drys fast and no leading.

  13. #13
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    People do use straight Alox, you can buy it by the quart or half gallon from Lars white label lubes. Know some old timers who do rifle by dipping the bases up over the lube grooves in alox then let them dry in plastic cartridge box dividers. Run them through the sizer. Have nearly full lube grooves.

    There are at least a couple of alternatives to BLL made from the Jonson's liquid wax that you can try now that the liquid wax is discontinued.
    Lundmark liquid wax http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...id-Lube/page55 any place a site search turns up Lundmark Liquid Wax you can bet they are talking about using it as a replacement for the Johnson's liquid wax.

    The original version of BLL was 45/45/10 a search of the site for 45/45/10 lube will find tutorials on making it and discussion on it. It used Johnson's paste wax which was melted and cooked to get solvents out then controlled amount of mineral spirits (10%) was added back in. So 45% alox, 45% melted paste wax, and 10% mineral spirits. The use of the Johnson's liquid wax allowed one to avoid the melting of the paste wax and adding in of the mineral spirits so it was faster and easier to make but worked about the same as the original 45/45/10 lube. Maybe a bit more shelf stable. The solvent in my 45/45/10 tends to evaporate over time and it has to be heated to melt rather than being a liquid.

    Directions for making it. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...-amp-Mess-Free Ace Hardware has the JPW in sold form, and Home Depot may also.
    Scrap.... because all the really pithy and emphatic four letter words were taken and we had to describe this source of casting material somehow so we added an "S" to what non casters and wives call what we collect.

    Kind of hard to claim to love America while one is hating half the Americans that disagree with you. One nation indivisible requires work.

    Feedback page http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...light=RogerDat

  14. #14
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    RogerDat (& others) -- in my eagerness to get a "perfect" boolit for my .35Rem Marlin, I quickly ordered a NOE mould during their 1-day sale -- too late realizing it is of the TL flavor. Here I am, casting for 40+ years, and never ever having tumble lubed. I first rang Mr. Nelson at NOE who advised the mould I ordered is only available in the tumble-lube design, and has even offered a refund if I do not like it, but suggested I try it first. He suggested the Lee kit, and I rang Dennis at Titan and one was delivered Wednesday. A little wary re instructions which had come with it, I chanced upon this thread -- and cannot thank you enough for most germane comments re the process, as well as your providing the URLs! I bought an additional 4oz jar of Alox from Titan, so I may very well have an attempt at making a mixture using one, while having the untouched as a back-up if I mess up... I do have a wee question re sizing -- the way I understand it, one sizes cast boolit to intended size, and tumbles. After they dry, one re-tumbles, and then loads the 2nd-tumbled boolits as such?
    Thank you again!!!!
    geo

  15. #15
    Boolit Buddy Phlier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RogerDat View Post
    People do use straight Alox, you can buy it by the quart or half gallon from Lars white label lubes. Know some old timers who do rifle by dipping the bases up over the lube grooves in alox then let them dry in plastic cartridge box dividers. Run them through the sizer. Have nearly full lube grooves.

    There are at least a couple of alternatives to BLL made from the Jonson's liquid wax that you can try now that the liquid wax is discontinued.
    Lundmark liquid wax http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...id-Lube/page55 any place a site search turns up Lundmark Liquid Wax you can bet they are talking about using it as a replacement for the Johnson's liquid wax.

    The original version of BLL was 45/45/10 a search of the site for 45/45/10 lube will find tutorials on making it and discussion on it. It used Johnson's paste wax which was melted and cooked to get solvents out then controlled amount of mineral spirits (10%) was added back in. So 45% alox, 45% melted paste wax, and 10% mineral spirits. The use of the Johnson's liquid wax allowed one to avoid the melting of the paste wax and adding in of the mineral spirits so it was faster and easier to make but worked about the same as the original 45/45/10 lube. Maybe a bit more shelf stable. The solvent in my 45/45/10 tends to evaporate over time and it has to be heated to melt rather than being a liquid.

    Directions for making it. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...-amp-Mess-Free Ace Hardware has the JPW in sold form, and Home Depot may also.
    Actually, 45/45/10 was first made by Recluse. Ben came along and made an alternative using 60% Alox/40% Johnson's Liquid Floor Wax.
    "Things sure are a lot more like the way they are now than they used to be." --Yogi Berra

  16. #16
    Boolit Master
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    That's just what I'm looking for. Carnauba has the highest melting point of the waxes, and here in the desert south west, as you may well have heard, it gets hot. I'm going to try your carnauba variation to both increase the overall hardness of the coating and also hopefully make it more hot weather friendly.
    Sans the solvent, the melting point of the Alox is very, very high, by itself. Any wax you add reduces the melting point. Just keep the ratio right, and you be fine. If you have problem, just add more alox.


    BTW, str8 alox is not sticky. If you let it dry ALL THE WAY, it is hard as a brick and not tacky, at all. It is also easy to spread/apply thinly, IF you keep it hot. But adding wax helps by reducing the melting temp. Any wax you add, even carnuba, is making the final dried coating SOFTER. Anyone that has stored LLA in the wrong kind of non-airtight container and left for a couple years knows this. Also, FYI, by volume, LLA is probably more than 80% volatile solvent. There's not much left after it's thoroughly dried. I have what's left after half a bottle of LLA is dried, and it's the size of a prune and way tougher and maybe even harder than any wax. It is very slightly elastic/flexible. It is hard to cut, and it doesn't crumble/flake, either. You can't snap a piece off with your fingers. You can dent it with a fingernail, but good luck trying to scrape or break any off without a knife. I cut the bottle out from around it and wrapped it in saran wrap, lol. I can throw it against concrete and it won't change shape or break. You could make a serviceable hockey puck out of this stuff. And as stated earlier, when I mix up new batch of lube, the melting point of the solid alox is very much higher than beeswax.
    Last edited by gloob; 01-06-2017 at 06:13 PM.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by georgerkahn View Post
    RogerDat (& others) -- in my eagerness to get a "perfect" boolit for my .35Rem Marlin, I quickly ordered a NOE mould during their 1-day sale -- too late realizing it is of the TL flavor. Here I am, casting for 40+ years, and never ever having tumble lubed. I first rang Mr. Nelson at NOE who advised the mould I ordered is only available in the tumble-lube design, and has even offered a refund if I do not like it, but suggested I try it first. He suggested the Lee kit, and I rang Dennis at Titan and one was delivered Wednesday. A little wary re instructions which had come with it, I chanced upon this thread -- and cannot thank you enough for most germane comments re the process, as well as your providing the URLs! I bought an additional 4oz jar of Alox from Titan, so I may very well have an attempt at making a mixture using one, while having the untouched as a back-up if I mess up... I do have a wee question re sizing -- the way I understand it, one sizes cast boolit to intended size, and tumbles. After they dry, one re-tumbles, and then loads the 2nd-tumbled boolits as such?
    Thank you again!!!!
    geo
    Yes, on tumble lube, lube, cure, size, relube . Won't take as much 2nd time.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master



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    Quote Originally Posted by georgerkahn View Post
    RogerDat (& others) -- in my eagerness to get a "perfect" boolit for my .35Rem Marlin, I quickly ordered a NOE mould during their 1-day sale -- too late realizing it is of the TL flavor. Here I am, casting for 40+ years, and never ever having tumble lubed. I first rang Mr. Nelson at NOE who advised the mould I ordered is only available in the tumble-lube design, and has even offered a refund if I do not like it, but suggested I try it first. He suggested the Lee kit, and I rang Dennis at Titan and one was delivered Wednesday. A little wary re instructions which had come with it, I chanced upon this thread -- and cannot thank you enough for most germane comments re the process, as well as your providing the URLs! I bought an additional 4oz jar of Alox from Titan, so I may very well have an attempt at making a mixture using one, while having the untouched as a back-up if I mess up... I do have a wee question re sizing -- the way I understand it, one sizes cast boolit to intended size, and tumbles. After they dry, one re-tumbles, and then loads the 2nd-tumbled boolits as such?
    Thank you again!!!!
    geo
    I believe the way it is intended is to tumble before sizing - then size and tumble again after they are sized.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phlier View Post
    Actually, 45/45/10 was first made by Recluse. Ben came along and made an alternative using 60% Alox/40% Johnson's Liquid Floor Wax.
    Thanks for the clarification.

    George the order you state is the one I use. Tumble, run through Lee sizer, tumble again. Then load. Or maybe stash for later use. One thing I like about the "enhanced" alox versions is less sticky so it doesn't seem as prone to picking up dust and debris as straight alox. I will also add that heating the cast lead up with the wife's blow dryer first so they are warm seems to help both the even coating and the drying time. I dump on tray covered with wax paper but that is because I have a lovely tray that is most certainly NOT pewter handy.
    Scrap.... because all the really pithy and emphatic four letter words were taken and we had to describe this source of casting material somehow so we added an "S" to what non casters and wives call what we collect.

    Kind of hard to claim to love America while one is hating half the Americans that disagree with you. One nation indivisible requires work.

    Feedback page http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...light=RogerDat

  20. #20
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    Straight Lee Alox works fine. I think the biggest problem is that people use way too much of it. I put a cup of water in the micro until it is boiling, then remove, and set the bottle of Alox in the cup (spout open) for a few minutes. At this point it is warmed and is thin as water. Just a VERY small drizzle is enough to do hundreds of boolits. If you can see it on the boolits when dry, you used too much. I use it for 38 Special wadcutters and the LEE 105 SWC. Also for the LEE 314-90 (sized to .311) for the 30-30 Win. I do prefer the lube-sizer most everything else though.

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