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Thread: Help with my Arisaka

  1. #1
    Boolit Mold
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    Help with my Arisaka

    I saw a post on here along this line and was hoping you guys could help me.
    I bought this Arisaka from a local dealer and was surprised to find it had no firing pin. The more I look into it the less I am learning. He called it a "last ditch" Type 99, to me it looks like it has some of the features of a last ditch and am just looking for more information. I would love to shoot it but I have heard of many people having issues doing that with some of the rifles that were drilling models or training only models.

    It looks to be from the Kokura arsenal with a serial number of 79130 but I am unable to decipher the series character. ALso you can see the 'Mum has been ground down.

    Any help is appreciated.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails side.jpg   side 2.jpg   bayonet mount.jpg   front sight.jpg   sight down.jpg  

    sight up.jpg   safety.jpg   firing pin.jpg   mum.jpg   serial number.jpg  


  2. #2
    Boolit Master



    NavyVet1959's Avatar
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    The photos of the serial number are not high enough resolution for me to tell what you have there.

    Is that a steel or wood butt plate? If wood, then it was probably a late war issue.

    The ladder type rear sight does not look like a late war issue though.

    The actual "training rifles" that you should not shoot have smooth bores from what I've heard.

    You can make 7.7x58 brass from 30.06 brass.

    http://oldmilitarymarkings.com/japanese_markings.html

    http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=42450

    Here's one that I have that was sporterized:


  3. #3
    Boolit Mold
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    Here is a better picture of the series mark.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails tmp_3780-1110160255-499219407.jpg  

  4. #4
    Boolit Master



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    Quote Originally Posted by ira_dale View Post
    Here is a better picture of the series mark.
    From looking at the page that I previously linked, it looks like it might be a Series 25.

    On an old rifle that has scratches on it, it's difficult going by a photo. Sometimes you need to examine it with a high power magnification jeweler's loupe so that you cal tell whether something is an actual imprint or just a scratch.

  5. #5
    In Remembrance



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    Your Arisaka looks to be late-war production, but definitely not "last-ditch." If it has a chrome-lined bore it is more likely mid-war like 1934-44. Nonetheless, Gunpartscorp has firing pins and main springs. The smooth safety knob could be a replacement. The Arisaka is a sturdy rifle and ammo can be found. My Dad hunted with one in the 50s and 60s, hoarding his limited supply of expensive Norma cartridges and brass. Today brass and loaded ammo is easily available from several sources on the internet. You can find the date it was made on this website: http://oldmilitarymarkings.com/japanese_markings.html

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    Curator is right. It's made without some of the pre-war care, but is definitely not a "last ditch." The ground-off chrysanthemum means it was captured by the Army and the soldiers allowed to take their pick from a pile of them after they were ground to show they were no longer the Emperor's property. A rifle captured by an individual soldier in the field would have the mum intact.

    You should be able to find a firing pin and maybe even the anti-aircraft wings for the rear sight at Gun Parts or SARCo.

    A friend had a true "last ditch" Arisaka. The rear sight was a block with a notch, there were rough machining marks all over the barrel, receiver and bolt, the bolt knob looked like a hardware store bolt, the end cap safety looked like a parted-off piece of scrap round stock, and the inletting was cavernous, to say the least. We put three boxes of Norma ammo of various bullet weights through it, and it shot pretty well and functioned as well as any earlier specimen.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master




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    Type 99 Arisaka

    An interesting mix of mid and late war parts, mainly the butt plate and the striker housing/safety knob as late war additions. I hope you find a firing pin for it. The Arisaka used a firing pin (FP) body which is hollow and the mainspring is inside the FP body and not around it like the Mauser and Springfield designs. I think that must have been about the only weak point in the design as I've see those FP bodies cracked while inspecting friends' Arisakas.

    Given its unknown history, start low with your loads till you are confident in the rifle.
    Keep your powder dry,

    Scharf

  8. #8
    Boolit Master



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    I have had good luck with Springfield Sports, Inc. in the past. You might want to give them a call at 724-254-2626. Their web site is not in the best of shape right now as they are completely changing it right now. That rear sight is a dead give -a -way that your rifle is not a "last ditch" rifle. The type 99(yours) and 38 are both very strong rifles though. Also, the stocks that I have seen on the "last ditch" rifles had a wooden butt plate and file and machine marks were not polished out. They exhibited a lot of had filing to make certain parts rather than machining or stamping. Probably by women doing the best they could with very little or no machinery. Home cooking so to speak. By 44 and 45, the Japanese were in very dire straits without necessary oil supplies and almost no iron or steel to make necessary weapons. Their oil and other supplies being cut off by the Carriers and Submarines to the point of almost complete strangulation. You have a very interesting rifle and worth preserving in my opinion. james

  9. #9
    Boolit Mold
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    Dumb questuon, what is the best way to see if it has a chrome lined bore?

  10. #10
    Boolit Master



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    Quote Originally Posted by ira_dale View Post
    Dumb questuon, what is the best way to see if it has a chrome lined bore?
    Shine a light and look inside?

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    You can spot a chromed lined bore by looking at the muzzle, a chromed lined bore will have a thin shiny area around the bore while a regular bore will not be shiny at the muzzle.
    Nice rifle, get a firing pin and shoot it.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master




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    Short of the late war rifles, the bolt face on a Type 99 will also be chromed and kind of a flat silver in color, much like the old Armaloy finish of the 70s.

    As you have the "pear" shaped bolt handle, my guess is that your bolt should be early or mid war production. That doesn't always ring true, but most late war rifles have a bolt handle shape that was easier to manufacture.
    Last edited by Scharfschuetze; 11-10-2016 at 10:00 PM.
    Keep your powder dry,

    Scharf

  13. #13
    Boolit Grand Master

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    I use 8X57 in my Arisaka's (have three 99s). Just run it thru the 7.7X58 die and load. Just a little short but works well. The 8X57 has the shoulder farther towards the case mouth than the 7X57, which doesn't work as easily as the base to shoulder headspace is too short.
    All three of mine have bores from .314" to .315" so you might want to check the bore in yours.

  14. #14
    Boolit Man
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    The other folks are dead on. definitely not "last ditch". only issues are rear sight is missing the "anti-aircraft" wings, the smooth safety knob, and the broke firing pin. you can get great new brass from grafs.

    you can usually find firing pins on fleabay, theres one cheap now: http://tinyurl.com/arisaka-pin

    you may also need a firing pin spring spring.best
    shunka
    Those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it.

  15. #15
    Boolit Buddy
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    I have two Type 99 Arisaka. The first is a Bubba'd sporter. I bought it to build a 280 Remington. While researching parts, I ran across a Type 99 already done in 280 Rem. As it was a new conversion and it was about the same money, I bought it. Then I went to Graf's and bought brass for the 7.7. I loaded a few and shot a couple.
    It now sits in the safe. The 280 is a tack driver.
    PS: I grew up shooting a 308 win rechamber of a type 99. It was a very short carbine of my Dad's. It had the shiniest bore I have ever seen. I remember when we first came to Alaska, he gave $35.00 for it. He didn't reload so it shot fine with Winchester Silver tips. The best shot I ever saw was when he killed a moose at a measured 390 yards at a dead run, One shot, one kill. He could shoot.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master



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    Your rifle is an excellent example of a late war, but not last ditch weapon. If, for no other reason, it has a full length upper handguard whereas the last ditch guns had none. I'll bet it's perfectly safe to shoot too. I'd also bet that some previous owner deliberately cut off the firing pin........kids in the family perhaps? That smooth safety is not unusual either.....lots of production cuts happened late in the war and a checkered safety became an extravagance.

    A quick caution on reassembly of the bolt.......hold the bolt body vertical with the face down and the rear end up. Notice that there are two notches for the striker (firing pin). Place the new firing pin so that the sear is in the UPPER notch, insert into the bolt body then reassemble the safety knob with a push/counter-clockwise direction. If you inadvertently put the striker in the LOWER notch, reassemble and put the bolt back in the gun it will close but refuse to open. At that point you have my sympathy, as you will have to use a screwdriver through the magazine opening to recock the gun before the bolt will come back out. Also, because of the way the action is designed, you can't gently release the striker by pulling the trigger while closing the bolt......ala Mauser. Just pull the trigger and let the striker fall, won't hurt a thing.

    The above assembly applies to both the type 38 and type 99 actions.

    Another thing, DON'T take the gun apart unless you have no other choice. All of those screws were staked into place at the arsenal with a punch and once that punch mark is disturbed, its value will go down to a collector. Also, DON'T try to refinish the stock. Leave every wart and ding on there as it's part of the gun's history. That, plus the original finish was a hard varnish made from the urishi plant.....a kissin' cousin to poison sumac and the sanding dust will make you very sick. I usually just use something like WD-40 as a cleaning agent to remove any surface dirt and leave it at that. Some future collector will thank you.

    As for cast in the 7.7......make 'em big and make 'em hard. That smooth Metford style rifling will let a soft boolit slide right on over the lands. It took me several tries before I figured out that little trick! Best accuracy I've ever gotten was about 2 1/2" at 100 yards, but it took me a long time to work out a load that particular rifle (my shooter) liked.

    I have over thirty Arisakas...6.5's, 7.7's and one Chinese conversion to 7.62x39! They are a tough, battle proven rifle with a simple, superior design that has survived many conflicts and Bubba hack jobs, but they still keep shooting.
    Last edited by 3006guns; 11-21-2016 at 05:38 PM.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by leadman View Post
    I use 8X57 in my Arisaka's (have three 99s). Just run it thru the 7.7X58 die and load. Just a little short but works well. The 8X57 has the shoulder farther towards the case mouth than the 7X57, which doesn't work as easily as the base to shoulder headspace is too short.
    All three of mine have bores from .314" to .315" so you might want to check the bore in yours.
    Did the same thing forming brass when I owned one. It would do 3shots at 100 yds into 2 inches with 180 gr CoreLokt bullets(310")- so I guess mine was a tight bore. I also had a Type 38 that I rebarreled to 8X57- that one was my favorite. A neighbor owns it and someday I may get it back. Best, Thomas.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
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    Your rifle is a late issue not a last ditch. The bolt knob looks last ditch made. After the war guy took home Jap rifles. Some took the firing pin out to make them safe if the had young boys around. As boys will be boys they will find some type of ammo to see if they make the rifle fire. I make ammo for mine out of 30-06, 270,25-06 I like 270 brass more common to find and cheaper. The bore size can be from 310-317 early models 310-314 size. The last ditch very crude made. The reciever may have not been heat treated so in my opinion should not be fired. I value my face and fingers.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master



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    Quote Originally Posted by bouncer50 View Post
    Your rifle is a late issue not a last ditch. The bolt knob looks last ditch made. After the war guy took home Jap rifles. Some took the firing pin out to make them safe if the had young boys around. As boys will be boys they will find some type of ammo to see if they make the rifle fire. I make ammo for mine out of 30-06, 270,25-06 I like 270 brass more common to find and cheaper. The bore size can be from 310-317 early models 310-314 size. The last ditch very crude made. The reciever may have not been heat treated so in my opinion should not be fired. I value my face and fingers.
    I had to reply to this post.......the type 38 and 99 rifles were evaluated by the H.P.White Laboratories years ago (at the request of P.O. Ackley, noted gunsmith) and the report said the heat treating was the most elaborate they'd ever seen. Each piece was heat treated for the task it had to perform. Some action pieces had multiple heat treatments and if in good condition are very strong rifles. No Springfield, Enfield, Mauser, etc. was ever built that way.

    Now, having said that, there are two that I would never fire:

    1. A type 38 training rifle, never meant to fire a live round and identifiable by the crudity of construction/lack of royal chrysanthemum. The true dead giveaway on these is the top tang at the rear of the receiver......it's two piece steel on the real Arisaka, and one piece cast iron (usually) on the trainers. The receiver will have only a two digit number, sometimes three, but not four, five or more like the real gun.

    2. A "special" type 99, a very late war effort consisting of a cast iron receiver identifiable by its rough, cast finish....no machining marks and a larger diameter than the regular type 99. The rear of the steel barrel is larger than normal and has two cutouts to accept the bolt locking lugs. In other words, with a round chambered the barrel and bolt are locked together. The receiver only holds all the parts in alignment and receives no stress. Yeah, right......a clever idea but I still wouldn't fire it.

    Except for the two above, Arisakas are good, tough rifles......even the late war guns. You can point out the lathe marks on the barrel and I'll just haul out my 03-A3 with the same thing. So, what's your point?

  20. #20
    Boolit Master



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    One of my uncles who was in the Navy told me that after the war was over some ship captains would not allow a Japanese rifle on the ship which had a firing pin in it or one that had not been rendered in-usable. He brought his home by removing the firing pin and hiding it in his clothing when he left the ship. Your firing pin might have been caught in one of those situations.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
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GC Gas Check