Best load of powder

[fishleclair]

I have been shooting some round ball and Hornady .45cal (240gr) sabots outta my Pedresoli .50 cal Muzz. My question is do I keep upping my load of powder to find best results for grouping? I seem to be kinda all over (6-18" group) I was running 70 gr of FFG. What's your suggestions. I know that the round ball on the sabots will preform different of each other.

[mooman76]

What is the twist rates and why are you bothering with sabot? Also where did you start grain powder wise? You could try more but if you are already at 70gr with a 45, and shooting that bad, going up more will likely not get you to good groups.

[johnson1942]

you have to give us details. 50 cal but what is the twist rate as stated above. then we can give you info.

[rodwha]

I've considered trying my 0.457" balls in my .50 cal by double patching. This would be for small game until I get something more suited. These would be light loads. What are your intentions?

[Lead Fred]

do I keep upping my load of powder to find best results for grouping?

Get a paper & crayon, there will be a quiz at the end.

I only shoot patched round ball out of my home made 45 cal flintlock. What I do know is there is only so much powder you can use. My load is standard and close, 55gr 3f (1650fps), max load is 74.5gr 3f (2030fps). Anything more is wasted.
How do I know this?
I used the Davenport formula.
It does not tell you your most accurate group is, but it will tell you the point where you are wasting powder.
Once you know this, you can work backwards via 1/2 grain charges until your group is tightest. Mine is 55gr 3f.

Here is the formula, Im cutting and pasting it from an email I got last decade.

Math is not my long suite. That is why I became a lawyer. But, the Davenport formula is worked by using some of that darn math they tried to teach me back in HS.

The Cubic area of the bore would be done this way:

Take the bore diameter( or groove diameter and then calculate both cubic areas. Then subtract the area created by the lands, to get the actual true Cubic area of a rifled barrel. Generally, the difference is measured in a couple of grains, and is not worth the extra brain power used.) and divide it by 2 to get the Radius of the bore. (r)

Area of a circle is determined by the formula A= PiR Squared. Pi= 3.1416. So, Multiply the Radius by itself(to square it) and then multiply that number by Pi to find the area of the circle the diameter of the Bore of your gun.

Now Multiply that number( area) times the 11.5 to get the amount of powder in one inch of your bore. Multiply that number by the length of your barrel to get the total capacity for your whole barrel.


Example:

( .50 cal. divided by 2 = .25; times .25 = .0625; times 3.1416= .19635; times 11.5 =2.2580; times 28(barrel length)=63.22 grains of powder.)

If you want to know the cubic space inside one inch of a .50 caliber rifle, you can use .50 as the diameter, or measure the actual land to land dimension, and then the groove diameter, and then the groove depth, to work out EXACT the cubic area of that particular bore.

Here is how to calculate the Davenport Formula:


.50 divided by 2 = .25
.25 x .25 = .0625
.0625 times Pi( 3.1416)= 0.19635
.19635 x 11.5 = 2.2580

2.2580 x 28 inches( barrel length)= 63.22 grains of powder.
___________________


Assume you are shooting a 28 inch .50 caliber rifle barrel. The cubic area of that bore will be 28 x .19635 = 5.4978 cubic inches.

Now, because you do have grooves in that barrel, you can refine that a bit more.

Assume that the actual groove diameter of your gun is .501" ( my .50 caliber rifle's actual bore diameter)

Run the Davenport formula and you get:

.501 divided by 2 = .2505
.2505 x .2505 = .0627502
.0627502 x 3.1416 = 0.197136
0.197136 x 11.5 = 2.267064
2.267064 x 28 = 63.477792 grains of powder.

A cube of anything is determined by multiply the height times the width, times the depth, of the object. When you need to compute the cubic area of a cylinder, or other non-square object, it gets a bit more involved.

Now assume that the bore diameter is actually .490, and groove depth is .0055"( .501 minus .490 divided by 2 = .0055")( again, my gun's actual bore diameter)

Now assume that there are 6 lands and grooves, of equal width. The circumference of that bore( .490) is .769692" Divide that by 12( 6 grooves and 6 lands) and you get the width of the lands and grooves to be .064141".

To adjust the cubic area to correct for these "obstructions", you need to subtract from 5.519808 the area occupied by those 6 lands, that are .064141" wide, and .0055" deep.

So, multiply 6 time times .064141 times .0055 = .0003527"

5.519808 - .0003527 = 5.5194553 Cubic Inches
______________________________


If we ran the davenport formula using the Land to land diameter( bore diameter) of .490, we get:

.490 divided by 2 - ..245
.245 x .245 = .060025
.060025 x 3.1416 =.1885745 square inches. ( for a circle that is .490 in diameter.)
.1885745 x 11.5 = 2.1686067 grains per inch
2.168067 x 28 = 60.720987 grains of powder.

So, if you use the smaller diameter of the bore( land to land[.490])

The Davenport formula will give you only 60.72 grains of powder in that 28 inch barrel.

If you use the nominal .50 caliber, the formula gives you 63.22 grains of powder in that 28 inch barrel.

And, if you do all the math needed to actually get the ACTUAL cubic area of that barrel, you get a figure in between those two, 60.7, vs. 63.2! That is a difference of 2.5 grains, and half( assume that the lands and grooves are of equal width) that is only 1.25 grains!( Approx. 61.95 Grains!) Not enough to bother about, NO?
_______________________

Enjoy!

[rodwha]

I'm not familiar with this Davenport formula or what the waste of powder is, but I've never seen that anything about 65 grns of powder in a .50 cal is a waste. This is typically somewhere above 100-120 grns where the return isn't much.

[GoexBlackhorn]

I have been shooting some round ball and Hornady .45cal (240gr) sabots outta my Pedresoli .50 cal Muzz. My question is do I keep upping my load of powder to find best results for grouping? I seem to be kinda all over (6-18" group) I was running 70 gr of FFG. What's your suggestions. I know that the round ball on the sabots will preform different of each other.

Pedersoli (WHAT) 50cal?
What powder?

Also, always build-up a load/bullet combo with more than one option of bullet. Go buy another sabot/bullet of another brand and try those.

[Hogdaddy]

Twist will make a difference.48 is good for round balls or maxi balls ; )
H/D

[fishleclair]

Sorry for not including all the info, This is the one I have http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/sche...ion-model.html. I was using 70gr of Hodgens? FFG.

[rfd]

that's a trad sidelock w/1:48 twist w/dst. forget the sabot nonsense, shoot patched balls - or maxie's or lee REALs if you want more hitting power on game. get more knowledgeable about the powder yer using, and if possible use real black powder. sounds like yer a pilgrim to muzzleloaders, if so we can help you get on the right path if you like. are you hunting or just shooting or both?

[fishleclair]

Shooting and want to hunt deer with it. I am fairly new to it and was getting a bit discouraged. I know they aint the most accurate but I know they can be tighter. Ill take the advice and tune er in to the best it can be. I am looking for 75 yard shots.

[rfd]

honestly, yer best bet is a patched ball - a .490 ball will blow right through a deer's vitals at 75 yards - and it'll probably prove to be most accurate of all. i use 80 grains of 3f (and 3f in the pan, as i prefer flintlocks), .015 linen patching over a .490 pure lead cast ball. tough all around load to beat. balls 'n' maxie's will both work well with a 36" tube and 1:48 twist. you have a fine rifle, shoot it a lot, experiment with different types of powder and charges, try different patch thicknesses, maybe give the lee REAL a try, too. it's all good, have fun!

this article may be of help --- http://traditionalmuzzleloadingassoc...dml/index.html

[fishleclair]

Thanks for the advice, Ill be back out running the round ball load, Start at 60Gr then work my way up or down from there.

[rond]

Are those sabots for round ball? The ones I have are for .45 pistol bullets and work very well with 250 gr. RNFP. My start load with a new muzzleloader is 2x the bore and work from there.

[Edward]

I am shooting 535 ball in a slow twist TC Hawken w/.010 mink lubed linen patch,and found that over the 2F /80gr powder I put 2/ 0.15 lubed wads and then the patched ball .The one fat hole@50yds (scoped)does change to a larger group with flyers with a single wad. And because I am retired (time on my hands)I got similar results with 45& 50 cal Guns using 2 wads ,don't know why but it is consistent accuracy !

[rfd]

Are those sabots for round ball? The ones I have are for .45 pistol bullets and work very well with 250 gr. RNFP. My start load with a new muzzleloader is 2x the bore and work from there.

he has a trad sidelock w/1:48 rifling that's representative of the 19th century, not a modern fast twist inline. these trad rifles were meant for patched lead balls and black powder (though it's a cap lock and a good sub will work ok), and it's twist will accommodate a greased maxie or a dry lee REAL.

"start load" should be dependant on the manufacturer's advise and also the type and granularity of powder. starting this .50 with 100 grains of anything would not be a good nor smart choice, imo. using 2f bp, 50 volume grains to *maybe* 90 grains, but always within the manufacturer's limits. be safe.

[rfd]

I am shooting 535 ball in a slow twist TC Hawken w/.010 mink lubed linen patch,and found that over the 2F /80gr powder I put 2/ 0.15 lubed wads and then the patched ball .The one fat hole@50yds (scoped)does change to a larger group with flyers with a single wad. And because I am retired (time on my hands)I got similar results with 45& 50 cal Guns using 2 wads ,don't know why but it is consistent accuracy !

it's about filling up the rifling grooves to seal in the gas, and it works for best accuracy for most folks, like you. bet yer hammering down the double patched balls, too.

[Lead pot]

If the Davenport formula is to complicated then try the old way to come up with a load.
Put the ball in the palm of your hand and pour some real black powder over it till it's covered and that will be your load.

Things just get to complicated for the none scientific mind.

[rfd]

If the Davenport formula is to complicated then try the old way to come up with a load.
Put the ball in the palm of your hand and pour some real black powder over it till it's covered and that will be your load.

Things just get to complicated for the none scientific mind.

HAH!!! allow common sense to prevail, at all costs!

[waksupi]

If the Davenport formula is to complicated then try the old way to come up with a load.
Put the ball in the palm of your hand and pour some real black powder over it till it's covered and that will be your load.

Things just get to complicated for the none scientific mind.

That kinda works for smaller calibers. Get over .45, and you'll be way short.