so which componets to get?

[georgerc]

In anticipation of whatever sales may pop up these holidays, I am getting a wish list together, just recently started gathering casting supplies, so I am now in the market for some molds, the 358-125 lee is on my list as I can likely use it for 38/357 and 9mm, and I was thinking a 000 buck mold, as it too can supposedly be used for 38/357 duplex loads, and maybe light 380 plinking ( this last one I have not heard of yet just figured it may work at some 70 gr per .360 ).

Another mold I am interested in is a #4, I hardly ever seen those on the shelves, not that I had been looking, 00 seems to be the norm, with all that said I figured why not look into shot shell reloading? maybe even get a slug mold while at it.

now I have some 2 3/4 hulls I have been saving but they are all cheap target loads, everybody seems to load only AA, all I have is some cheap Winchesters used to be loaded with 1oz #8 or #6, plastic base wad, and some federal dove loads, 1 1/8 #8 I believe it was loaded with, fiber base wad, rumor has it these are disposable and should not be reloaded, than again I come across threads about recasting the shot into slugs and put them back into those cheap shells, or the fiber ones should be chucked, bit confusing, not to mention the wad, ohh where to begin?

so the plan was to maybe load some modest 8 x #000 or 27 x #4 whatever weight that works out to regular shot data should work I guess, I f I could find any wad info for #000, I believe the hodgedon data pretty much boiled down to 2 powders for these buck loads universal and hs-6, and for the most part same wad is recommended, like the Waa12f 114 for example,

now looking at some buckshot loads with AA hulls, the HS-6 thou more powder is used by weight, the pressures show less for same load and velocity when compared to universal, yet when looking at the cheap shells only the universal load is mentioned, you'd think for a lesser quality shell you'd want to load to as little pressure as possible for a desired result, but what do I know, just trying to make some sense of this.

so for those that are familiar with this shot shell reloading, can you dumb this down for me? any danger in reloading the cheap shells, or simply not favorable, its not like I am looking for the best performance, most muzzle energy or best pattern possible, and when I go about ordering some molds, which wads should I be looking to get, considering what I am attempting here.
for the most part I see the wads are just different size shot cup and design not much mentioned about buckshot configuration, what if I got the largest shot cup possible so I could trim it to size desired, and maybe a bag of fiber wads should I have to bring it up, Id rather go the fibber cushion route myself but I figured the shot cup has its purpose holding the shot together?

well any input appreciated

[toallmy]

You can use the cheap Winchester hulls with the Load info for the new AA hulls , they just don't last as long . I use federal 20 gage hulls just because I get a good load stack with good crimp with my favorite load . Just pay attention to load data because not all hulls are the same . By the way the new 2 piece AA hulls are not much better than the cheap ones . If you need a specific load I can check the Lyman shot shell handbook .

[georgerc]

lets see if this works, http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/shotgun

this is what I was looking at, with Winchester hulls, for 9 #00 Waa12f114 wad, and for 27 #4 Waa12r, for some reason it requires a different wad, not sure how those #4 stack up to make 27, as for powders, it appears the HS6 while more by weight it generates less pressure for same performance with the same components, guess its bulkier and slower burning, common sense it to use it as a safe measure since the shells I plan to use are lower quality.

as for other options, this is all I could dig up on the hodgdon site, well with federal shells they call for fed 12s3 and 12s4 wad, wonder if these wads are all that different, and there there's the matter of a primer apparently these are different enough that one may kill themselves and blow up the neighborhood if using the wrong kind, or maybe that is just for liability reasons.

at this time I am mostly concerned about wads, I plan to order some at the same time with the molds save on shipping, as long as I got this figured out I'm good for now.

so I suppose HS6 is a decent powder to plan on using? I see unique is pretty popular if I ever found a recipe for it, I am open to sugestions, as to what powders/wad combos to consider.

on another note I am looking on the Grafs site, they don't show the Winchester wads I am looking for but they do show the federals and to dumb this down it looks like the 1 1/8 and 1 1/4 oz shotcup , would it be safe to assume that any other brand and design for a 2 3/4 shell of same shot cup would work, dimensionally they would be about the same, I assume the buckshot arrangement dictates the shot cup size

[toallmy]

For all my fun blasting stuff I use the claybuster equivalent wad , but some hulls have different internal dimensions so you should follow load recommendations , as far as powder I am a Alliant guy red , green , blue dot , Herco and unique , in every thing .

[georgerc]

in some sense I think I found what I was looking for http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/...productId/2320

this appears to be the claybuster counterpart for the 27 #4 buck with Winchester hull as per hodgedon data, it doesn't make much sense thou, looks like a very short buffer wad, that part works for me as I was planning to experiment with some short shells, other powders etc, however just a plain comparison to the data for federal hulls ( not all that different dimensional ) this one appears much shorter, unlikely it will work in a 2 3/4 hull without some extra fiber/nitro card to make up the height.

regardless I guess I can add a bag of this stuff to my order, MAYBE SOME OF THESE TOO http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/...productId/2316

with that being said I am open to trying out other powders, it just so happens I have hodgdon for all my other stuff and I am familiar with their site so that being said all these aliant powders are shotgun powders, do any recipes for these powders cross with these wads?

should I look into some nitrocards or fiber wads, just in case I may have to adjust the column height? I see it is popular to put 20ga in the shotcup, what if I wanted to add them below the wad, under the gas check?

[Jim atlas]

I don't like most Winchester hulls--but then again, there are about a million different Winchesters. The AA hulls are meant for target loads, and so have limited space. They work fine for their intended purpose as well as light field loads, but for heavy loads, I prefer straight walled hulls like Federal (.090 plastic base wad, gold medal, and paper base wad), cheddite, Rio, or fiocchi in that order. These offer more room over AA and STS shells.
For buckshot, you can use lead shot data and just use the right weight of buck (usually, 9 #00 = 1.125 oz for example).
For fillers, use cheerios or plastic bean bag beads under or over the shot. Nitro cards or gas seals will change the psi of the load, whereas cheerios won't .
Longshot has some pretty fast lead loads, though I am told psi can spike fast, so I wouldn't push past hodgdons max loads. I haven't used a lot of hs6 myself.
For primers, I'd stick with cooler ones. Though, in a 2.75" case with buckshot, I doubt you'll be able to get enough of anything in the hull to get into too much trouble. Especially with a 3.5" chamber. Just don't be stupid.
I'd buy as many shotshell reloading manuals as you can so you can cross reference data from one source to the other and get a feel for whatever component you're looking at.

[georgerc]

you're kind of going the opposite route I was aiming for, I'm just looking for some messing around loads, nothing fancy, maybe light HD loads, I looked into this before and I remember now while I gave up, just came across this thread, http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=123819

I read this before and apparently you cant even stack #000 in a shotcup, not even #00, maybe #0 in 2's , #1 is the smallest you can fit in 3's, not sure how the typical 27 #4 would even break down in a stack, it doesn't even break down to any configuration I can think of.

it appears for the #00 and #000 you got to do away with the shot cup, so I guess it is gas seals and fiber wads for those

[georgerc]

so here is something interesting, http://ingunowners.com/forums/ammuni...formation.html

best I can figure you typical 27 #4 buck configuration would be 3 layers of 5 and 3 layers of 4 alternatively, in a shot cup, thou looking at pictures of clear #4 shells looks like there is no shot cup but rather 4 layers of 7 except for the last one.

this pretty much rules out any validity to any buckshot load in a shot wad/cup, especially #00 and bigger you cant even stack 2 per layer,

so what is all his about cerios are you talking about the round circle cereal? I heard about cream of wheat for buffer but this I don't get

[toallmy]

I just looked at some #4 buckshot I have loaded for , some get out of my yard loads it is win AA hulls sp12 wad , 23 pellet of hard # 4 buck over a nice charge of blue dot . To be totally honest I have spent a lot of time and money on home made buckshot to realize it is hard to beat some good factory loads , but don't let that stop you . So now I do it for fun not hunting .

[Jim atlas]

That's why I was advocating the larger capacity hulls, and these are easy to get a hild of since a ton of promo hulls are cheddite or rio--in fact, some winchesters are made vy cheddite, and some federals are rios!. And longshot takes up less room then some other high energy powders. you can also snip the petals off the shot cup. bit yes, gas seal/nitro cards will work two.

[Hogtamer]

I've loaded every buckshot load you can imagine and some you can't, so just to simplify take a look at this thread for my best recommendation for 12 ga as to mold, load specifics and components needed.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...hot-PERFECTION!

[Jim atlas]

I mentioned the cheerios because you had spoken of using cards to get the right fit in the hull. Cheerios make excellent spacers: they're cheap, they weigh next to nothing, they'll adjust to the crimp (read slightly crush), they're biodegradable, and they taste great.

[georgerc]

appreciate the pointers, I shall have a look at it shortly, I have browsed a bit but did not come up with much, and so far looks like you tube threw me a curveball, go figure, I was watching bubba loading #4 in what looks like a steel shot cup, some other guy loaded up 18 #4 in a factory target load, and while it works I guess, I was looking more towards factory loads as a starting point, for some reason I assumed factory loads use a shot wad, maybe because all these guys were doing it, and loading data shows one wad or another and there seems to be this concept of not to stray away from published data, I guess that's whyI was looking at factory loads, figured there mus be a reason 27 #4 pellets is a common loading.

[georgerc]

actually hogtamer I believe I came across that thread at some point, I seem to remember some of the comments, but again you also used a shot cup, looks like you went down to a #1? to stack 3 per row, as compared to what I believe a 00 factory load would be stacked 3 per row, so my question is why?

the only buckshot I have is some suprema 00, never shot one nor have I opened them, maybe I should, but a quick google image search showed several clear factory loads with the more traditional nitrocard and fiber wads.

so now I wonder what gives with the plastic wads, I assume at some point they weren't around, I can see how they can be useful with birdshot, I assumed that they would be for buckshot also but apparently most factory loads do not employ them, not sure about the slugs, I am tempted to say factory loads don't employ shotcup type wads either, maybe sabot slugs do.

so is there something about the buckshot touching a smooth bore barrel that is a bad thing? is that why you all use the shot cups? yet factory loads don't, so that cant be a bad thing

[runfiverun]

wads have different thickness.
some wads have support ribs for the shot cup.
I have gotten both 8 and 9 shot count 00 [.320] loads worked up in different wads in the same hull.
the cup makes a difference.
the so-1 so-3 and so-4 are the federal wads you mentioned.
they look basically the same but the cushion section and wad petal length are different.
they basically take up the same length inside the hull just in different proportions.

[georgerc]

well we're getting somewhere but at the same time kindof in the wrong direction, as in you're getting me even more confused and making this sound more difficult than it is

I am aware of design differences in wads by manufacturer and model, and I did notice for the most part dimensionally they are the same just the proportions differ, or better said there are maybe a few different types and their variations.

where you got me confused is that I thought .32 is #0, not #00, considering the wad inner diameter I can see an 8 arrangement by 2, 9 by 3 is forcing it, unless some of those wads have super thin petals, and that is one of the variables I was hoping to get some input on, short of buying a bag of each to experiment with.

you see I am more mathematical than anything, I understand fluid mechanics very well, just not a shotshell handloader yet, and from what I read so far while everybody says don't under any circumstances stray away from a published recipe, the published ones I came across do not make much sense,

for example 2 X 0.33 equals just over a 12 ga wad ID, if you know of one that has an ID over 0.66 Id like to know about it, and even if you come up with one there is hardly any room for minor variations in the irregular imperfect round ball, 3 X #00 arrangements in a shot cup, forget it, not happening, least not in theory, maybe you can shove them in there and the shell in the chamber too, I don't know I haven't tried it, but this is what prompted an inquiry and that's when I noticed factory buckshot doesn't use shot cups, so why do handloaders? and why is all the published data calling for a wad of sorts, what am I missing, they cant be all wrong?, except for maybe the #000 recipes, good luck fitting 8 of those in a 12 GA shot cup, in a long crooked string maybe, so what does that tell me about the rest of the published data? that is just the obvious, there's other things I noticed that I wont get into yet