Interested in building a pot

[Strtspdlx]

I've had a problem recently where I won't run small batches of lead. Whenever I do run them I try to do it in batches of Atleast 100lbs. The problem being my pot only holds about 40-50lbs and it's extremely sketchy. So I have an old refrigerant bottle that I cut in half and will build some feet and a valve for easy pouring. I've looked at valves and such and have an idea for what I want to build. My question is what would be priority in valve placement and how would you build a base. It has handles on it that's just round stock bent on a loop. I was thinking about feet like that but doing 3 so it's more stable. I have an idea that I'll draw out at some point. I just want more experienced people to critique it and to hear suggestions. I know there's multiple posts on this and I have read some. But I'm looking for new ideas or things to try.

[runfiverun]

I would base my base off of what it's going to sit on.
a ring might be good to help concentrate heat on the bottom better.
but some angle iron judiciously welded into place to provide a wider foot print could provide the more stable platform.

as far as a pour spout the old tee handle and angled rod fitted into an angled receptacle is going to be the best bet.
just make sure it is guided into place and protected from junk getting in.

[NavyVet1959]

One thing to consider is separating the heat source from the support structure that holds the weight of the pot. In other words, build a strong enough support structure to hold the weight of the pot and then allow the heat source to just slide underneath it, not supporting any of the weight.

You can make a support structure out of cinder blocks with metal rods across it to hold the pot. Just leave enough room to slide your burner underneath it. This has an added advantage of blocking a lot of the wind and helping to keep the heat in there.

[farmerjim]

I use 3/4 of a propane cylinder. I do about 150 pounds at a time. I use a large soup ladle to get the lead out and pour into ingot molds. I mark all the ingots with a black marker. This is much easier (and cheaper) than a valve.

[country gent]

Several things to consider, think about, and decide on here before jumping in to far. 1) heat source. coal, wood, propane burner, electric bands. 2) hieght required for comfortable use. 3) amount of lead to be done in a batch. 4) portable or permanant set up. For smelting/blending I definitly perfer a ladle pot its easier to clean and flux than a bottom pour with the rods and such in the way. I also ladle cast my bullets. Heat sources wood or coal with a blower can be very quick melting large batches. Ive used stoker coal around a big pot and a shop vac reversed for a blower to melt 300+ lb batches quickly. Works well stoker coal is reasonably priced and it provides good hot temps. Drawbacks are the ash clinkers to be delt with and once sarted its going to burn and be there awhile, not the easy on off. Propane burners work well and can be quick. I use a harbor frieght weed burner (500,000 btu model) modified to sit under pot and stand to melt lead. I can have 150 lbs molten and ready to cast in 20-30 mins with this. I run it off of 25lb propane tanks and it is on and off simple. electric is there and can be used but I havent done much with electric pots. The stand needs to be a comfortable hieght to work at and strong enough to support the weight when hot. 3 legs are definitly better for a no rock set up. Levelers on the feet are a nice addition also. 1 1/2" angle, 2" channel iron, or even 3/4 schedule 80 black iron pipe can be used for legs. A couple support rings around top and bottom greatly stiffen the set up. A wide ring around the top also helps hold heat and direct it to the pot. the burner can be free standing as mentioned making it a little easier to adjust its placement and or hieght. Dont overlook a used turkey frier stand ad burner these can be very useable as is.

[Dragonheart]

A few photos of my smelting pot. A propane cylinder with the top cut off. A sheetmetal skirt formed to hold the heat in makes it very efficient. A bottom pour design copied from my RCBS Pro Melt just on a larger scale fills my ingot molds with clean lead from the bottom of the pot. Will melt well over 200 pounds of ingots in about 45 minutes from range lead. Sets securely on a propane Turkey fryer. All made from salvaged materials, with the exception of a Harbor Freight tapered punch used to seal the tapered drop tube.


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[Tazza]

I made a large pot out of an old 45kg lpg cylinder and part of a 44 gallon drum to keep the heat in, i don't know how much i melt at a time, but it has to be at least 100kg.


I use a ladle to scoop up the lead and pour into ingots.

[Strtspdlx]

Wow guys. Those are some nice setups. I'm definetely liking the ideas. I'm definetely going to use propane and I'd like it to be "able" to set over a fire pit of sorts in case I want to try it or I decide to not run propane anymore. I thought about natural gas as my homes is heated with it. But I think I'm getting too complicated at that point. Just so everyone has an idea of what I'm working with. I'll attach a photo with my current pot with vise grips on it for easy pouring, and yes I do realize it is a bad idea to pour directly from the pot into ingots. This is one of the primary reasons for me building a more suitable pot. Behind the pot I currently use is the burner setup I'm currently using on a stand I made so it can be up off the ground. It's a $15 propane burner I found at the local chain store. It honestly works well enough for me. From a dead cold pot and lead to a ready to flux melt in about 35-40 minutes. Now I will also say at this point that I'd like to keep in mind that at some point I'd like this to be easily used for smelting on an open fire or my fire pit.
Now for legs there's so many good ways to do this. But for me the simplest way is some 3/8" round stock I can bend into u's and weld to the pot. I may even go as far as making them lower supports for the pot and making them one piece instead of 3-4 seperate feet welded on. The valve is still up for thought. As I would like for it to be semi easily cleaned. I currently use a power drill with a wire brush attached and fill the pot with water to try and capture as much dust as possible. But here's what I have to work with so far. I have stuff laying around for a few different valve types. I just have to find the pieces.

[Tazza]

Vice grips are not ideal, but as long as they are tight, i see no problem if they hold well till you work out a permanent solution.

The only issue i have with making a bottom pour pot is the fact the lead in the valve area will be super heated possibly boiling the lead and making it turn to gas. I dunno, i just use a ladle and works for me.

[NavyVet1959]

If you've got natural gas, I would use it. Get a "banjo" burner and increase the inlet orifice size to around 1/16". There's probably a 1/4" NTP port on your gas meter as part of a 90 degree elbow that has a plug in it that you can put a conversion fitting in so that you can go to an air tool hose and then go from that to your burner.

[Tazza]

Over here, you can get fittings installed in your house like an air coupler, you just push to connect an appliance. Mainly for gas heaters inside or outside for a BBQ

[Strtspdlx]

Out of curiosity why would you recommend using natural gas. Isn't the setup almost completely different.

[Tazza]

I thought it was pretty well the same, just a different jet size in the appliance. I believe it's larger than the LPG/propane one. Possibly a different pressure too, but essentially the same to my understanding.

[woodbutcher]

Natural gas also eliminates the possibility of running out of LP in the middle of the job.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

[NavyVet1959]

Over here, you can get fittings installed in your house like an air coupler, you just push to connect an appliance. Mainly for gas heaters inside or outside for a BBQ

We have those, but they're not commonly available (i.e. at your typical home improvement store). I just use an air tool coupling and one of my air hoses since I'm not leaving it hooked up forever, just during the time I'm using it. I also install a ball valve before the female quick-connect at the meter so that I'm not relying on the quick-connect to not leak. It has been my experience that they always seem to leak a bit under high pressure, but I doubt that they leak much under the low pressure of natural gas. These hoses are rated for anywhere from 200 to 300 psi whereas the natural gas coming into your house at this point is less that *1* psi. I also tend to add a couple of elbows and short pieces of pipe so that the quick-connect fitting is pointed down so that no rain gets in it.

I don't remember the name of the type of elbow that I'm tying into. It looks like a normal elbow for 1" or so steel pipe, but it has a 1/4" FNPT port on it at the outer portion of the crook of the elbow. There is also a 1/4" MNPT plug installed in this port. The pressure is so low at this point that you can just unscrew the port and hold your finger over it until you can screw in the other fittings to adapt to the globe valve and then the quick-connect.

[NavyVet1959]

I thought it was pretty well the same, just a different jet size in the appliance. I believe it's larger than the LPG/propane one. Possibly a different pressure too, but essentially the same to my understanding.

Natural gas needs a larger jet size and it works better with the "banjo" type burners. LPG can run at higher pressure and can work with a "jet" type burner. If you use a "jet" type burner with natural gas, it will take a lot longer to heat up since natural gas lines have very low pressure (i.e. less than *1* psi).

If you are talking about appliances inside the home, then the burners are basically the same. We're talking about burners that are typically used outside for frying fish/turkeys and boiling crawfish. These are normally a higher pressure "jet" type burner with LPG. The "banjo" burner uses a large number of smaller flames to achieve similar BTUs output.

Natural gas is cheaper than LPG. Also, the way the pricing is on natural gas, there is a fixed charge per month for basic service which includes a certain number of cu-ft. Whether you use that number of cu-ft or not, you still get charged that amount. As such, if you normally don't use that amount, then it's possible that your gas used for smelting will still not go over that base charge, so the gas is free.

[lightman]

I've recently added a whole house generator to my house and have natural gas for the first time in 30+ years. I'm considering building a smelting pot and a natural gas burner. Actually, Navyvet has responded to a previous post of mine about this subject. Still have not done anything though.

Back to building a smelting pot. A member posted one a while back built from a large piece of heavy wall square tube. Like the support post that hold the canopy up at gas stations. A section of large diameter pipe also makes a good pot. Propane tanks and freon tanks work well and are easy to work with. Theres a sticky about smelting set-ups someplace on this site that has lots of ideas.

[Dragonheart]

Natural gas doesn't put out the BTU's like propane, so melting will take considerably longer. I have melted hundreds of pounds of ingots on a single fill propane tank, so unless you are doing this commercially several hundred pounds of lead will keep me in bullets for a very long time.

Most will have to call the gas company and pay to have an accessible valve installed on their gas meter as a valve is not a standard unless it was done previously for another gas appliance. With natural gas you are restricted to the location; propane is portable and can go anywhere. Your set up should be isolated as you are going to be cleaning a lot of slag out of range lead and lead is a hazardous substance.

As far as picking up any kind of pot filled with hot lead, I just don't do it! One slip and your body can be damaged for the rest of your life, it is just not worth it. I know it can't happen to you, but I can tell you it can. When you look at my pot you will see it sets on the original propane base plus on 16 gauge reinforced steel skirt surround the pot, adding stability. My pot also sits on a heavy steel frame work that is wider than the pot and completely stable. Think about your frame, when steel gets red hot it gets soft and can bend with 200 pounds sitting on the frame. 200+ pounds of molten lead it is nothing to play around with or take chances.

[Dragonheart]

I've recently added a whole house generator to my house and have natural gas for the first time in 30+ years. I'm considering building a smelting pot and a natural gas burner. Actually, Navyvet has responded to a previous post of mine about this subject. Still have not done anything though.

Back to building a smelting pot. A member posted one a while back built from a large piece of heavy wall square tube. Like the support post that hold the canopy up at gas stations. A section of large diameter pipe also makes a good pot. Propane tanks and freon tanks work well and are easy to work with. Theres a sticky about smelting set-ups someplace on this site that has lots of ideas.

Heavy steel works, but requires more welding and more heat to maintain the heat on the thicker steel. Old propane pots are plenty thick enough, hold more than an enough for a hobby and easy to find for free.

[NavyVet1959]

Natural gas doesn't put out the BTU's like propane, so melting will take considerably longer.

But that also means that it's likely to be more efficient since less heat is wasted by being blast up the sides of the pot.

A natural gas burner can put out the same BTUs as a propane burner, but it depends upon proper design of the respective burners. Whereas propane will use a higher pressure and smaller burner, natural gas will use a lower pressure and a larger number of outlet ports/jets.

Of course, on a per BTU/hr basis, natural gas is cheaper.

Most will have to call the gas company and pay to have an accessible valve installed on their gas meter as a valve is not a standard unless it was done previously for another gas appliance. With natural gas you are restricted to the location; propane is portable and can go anywhere. Your set up should be isolated as you are going to be cleaning a lot of slag out of range lead and lead is a hazardous substance.

If you can't do something as simple as unscrewing the 1/4 NPT plug from the elbow and installing the nipple, valve, and quick-connect like I mentioned above, you probably shouldn't be working with LPG either. Probably should call an electrician when your light bulbs go out and call a plumber to turn your faucets on to water your yard.