PP Success with 40/65

[ketland]

Been using the buffalo .395 425gr heavy PP bullet in the 40-65 rolling block. The barrel is a green mountain .40 cal they used to make, I do not remember off hand which profile it is, or the twist rate ( I do have the info written down somewhere, though not in front of me at the moment) it is a fairly heavy barrel with a nice taper which suits the action well. Rifle is very accurate out to 400 yards, but at 600, the group opens up multi directionally. Suggestions on a better bullet would be welcome.

[Don McDowell]

I like that BACO 396 415 gr money bullet. The same diameter bullet in the 385 gr weight might be a better choice for the twist in your barrel.

[ketland]

Thank You Don, looks like Buffalo arms has a .395 in 370gr or 400 gr, but no .396. I have always tended towards heavier bullets though perhaps that was not the best route for the smaller case on the 40-65, so I will try a lighter bullet and see if I can find some of the money bullets or a mold to cast them.

[rfd]

BACO custom cut my .40-65 Jim392425 mould to 393 for an added $10.

[Gunlaker]

Brent's right it's not the chamber in the gun, it's the bullet. The 40-65 is a good midrange cartridge when fed a bullet that is comparable with the barrel twist.
Chris the national record at 600 yards is 99 6x, it's held by Terry York, heck of a nice guy, and fun to spot for.

Thanks Don. I was pretty sure that no one had shot a perfect score at 600, but not 100% sure . That would be a nice record to have.

Chris.

[Don McDowell]

I have a 40-70 ss that the only bullet it will shoot reliably to 600 yards in any conditions is the .400 360 gr BACO bullet. Longer bullets will shoot well in it, until cross winds start kicking up, then things start getting a little goofy on target. Sometimes I think we get caught up to deep into trying to run long heavy bullets, especially in powder charge capacity challenged cases.

[Don McDowell]

Chris I wish you would of been at Byers when Eddie shot that sizzling score on the 500 yd target. It was something to watch.

[Gunlaker]

Yeah that's a tricky target for sure. If you can stay in the 10 and 9 rings it's not a big difference over the 600, but you sure can't make any mistakes on it or you pay big time. Hopefully I'm at Byers next year. I do like that match quite a lot, and Robert's BBQ is a pretty darn good too!

I might switch from the .40-65 to my new Long Range Express in .45-70 for midrange. I'm just waiting on some new sights, but I think it might be able to pick up a couple of points at 500 & 600.

Chris.

[DHDeal]

Brent is likely correct about the bullet. I don't shoot paper patched bullets in .40 cal, but my .40-65 grease grooved bullets shoot quite well at the 600 bptr targets.

DHDeal, don't worry too much about not holding 1.5 minutes of angle total at 600. I've never seen it done in competition. I'm not sure how many perfect scores have been shot at 600, or if any have been shot at all. Certainly 1.5 minutes of angle or less in the vertical direction is doable, but the wind always smears them out horizontally. It would take a very very calm day, or a super skilled wind reader to keep ten shots in the ten ring at that distance.

Chris.

Chris,
When I shoot these rifles, I'm shooting off of a Randolph front rest and have all the time in the world. You are correct in that I was referring to vertical when I mentioned no better than 1.5 MOA. While I don't have the wind that they get out west, those bullets tend to go way up before they come down so the wind still does it's thing on me.

I do well with the wind through my Benchrest scopes and an array of flags/daisy wheels, but with aperture sights, I just have pay attention to my 300 yard flags.

All this talk is making me want to pull the Crossno Hepburn back out and let her sing.

[Gellot Wilde]

Excellent stuff, your boolits look great by the way.

[beltfed]

DHD,
I have been shooting a 1.325" long Elliptical ogive profile/Prolate Minigroove bullet in my 16 twist 40-65, wt 368 gr
over 70 gr Swiss 1.5/RP cases/1375fps...stability and accuracy out to 1K.
Now went to a similar, profile Elliptical ogive PP bullet , same length, over 74.5gr Swiss 1.5/WW cases for 1400 fps
Also good to 1K. I wipe for the PP bullets- 2 wet w/distilled water, 1 dry works.
beltfed/arnie

[ketland]

I ordered some BACO .395 370gr PP bullets to test. Looking forward to seeing if the lighter (as opposed the 425gr. bullets I am now using) bullets do better.
Appreciate all the advice here. Great thread, and hopefully this will help get my 40-65 into the game.

[Lead pot]

I ordered the JIM395415E and it is a little to large in diameter for my Douglas barrel that runs a tight .399" bore diameter and even using .0015" paper it is a very hard push to get it seated with out sizing it. I don't like sizing bullets so I ordered another mould custom from BAco at .393" and I had Jim make it 1.460" long for my 14 twist barrel and it turned out to be a good combination, it shoots very well.......Kurt

[rfd]

that's the bugaboo of ppb's - getting the right mould cast diameter and the right paper thickness .... not to mention getting the right mould shape and mould builder, and the right paper type. and all with a specific rifle/bore/chamber in mind. i tend to err on the skinny side, close to bore diameter, but not at bore diameter.

[Lead pot]

I get the best out of the rifle patched 1/2 thousands over bore diameter seated in the case 1/8". The .395 mould actually ended as a .396" diameter. This is very unusual getting the wrong diameter from baco but it used for breach seating and it works very good patched at .403" but this is the largest diameter bullet that fits in Starline cases fired in my chamber.



Ketland get your supply of paper you will use, .0018" or '002" thick and get a mould made for the paper you can get the most.

[ketland]

Lead Pot, appreciate the input, I have a few thicknesses of paper, and one that works well with the .395 heavy bullets, so I will use that paper as the starting point for the lighter bullet. The heavier 425 grain bullets work very well out to 300 yards, so the experiment with the lighter 370 grainers will be first, to see if the bullet works well at 200 and 300 yards, then to see if it works out at 600 and 1000. I was never able to get the 425 grain bullet to work at 600, and I never tried it at 1000 yards, so this should be interesting.
My other PP rifle is a big heavy barreled Sharps 45-110, and that rifle shoots beautifully at 600 and 1000 yards using 550 grain bullets.

[Lead pot]

Very good. Sounds like your all set to get it worked out.
use the .45/2-5/8 for past 600

[ketland]

Lead Pot, I'm heartened here by reading that others have been able to make 40-65 work at longer distances, and I'm willing to make the effort to (hopefully) find a load that will work in mine at least out to 600 yards. The bigger 45-2.6 works so well it is almost boring to shoot, and that is where I'd like to be with the .40-65. Also, the 40-65 is built on a rolling block action, and I want to have a rolling block rifle that works well enough to bring to the range on a regular basis. The action started off as a Pedersoli Bodine rifle, and has an amazing piece of wood for a stock. I re-barreled it to 40-65 since I had the .40 barrel in the shop and a bunch of 40-65 brass, however I did not initially do testing with lighter bullets and that may well have been a/the mistake. Now I need to take the time and make the effort to find the best working load that works for this rifle, and this thread has provided the impetus for taking action to do so.

[Lead pot]

ketland the .40-65 is very capable of shooting long range. I shot with beltfed at the long range matches at Lodi Wis. and I pulled the target in the pit, cant remember if it was the 800 yard or the 900 yard when he shot the .40 and for 9 shots they went in the 10 and the X ring, the very last shot went just in the 9 by 1/2" so I know that the .40 will shoot long range.
I have a .40-70 I used for a long time that I used for the gong shoots with good results and I also have a .40-65 Browning BPCR I got in the mid 90's but I very seldom shoot it, it also shoots well but I just don't use it.
Last year I started shooting silhouettes and I really like it but I figured the .45-90 I was using for it was way over gunned for this game so I had a .40-65 CPA build and it just shoots the lights out but I have not shot it past 500 yards sofar but next summer is just around the turn of the new year
Kurt

[Don McDowell]

A couple of observations. The 40-65 certainly can shoot long range provided the winds don't get to rank. The biggest thing is to be sure and match the bullet length to the barrel twist. The other thing a person can get into with the 40's is there are some ranges that specify a minimum bullet weight for long range target, and that's where a 40 can get into problems as the bullet weight specified at over 400 gr. may be to long for the 16 twist the majority of 40 cal rifles now have.
Regarding paper weight and bullet diameter, what I'm seeing generally is that a bullet that is from bore diameter to .006 under bore can get by very well with a good quality 8 lb paper. Seth Cole 55 w, and the 8 lb tracing paper rolls Staples sells in their drafting dept both work well. When the bullet diameter goes smaller than .006 under bore that's when 9 lb paper really shines. When you get past .008 under bore diameter then you're looking at using 15 lb and heavier, but long range accuracy may not happen. 7 lb paper works well when you start getting into the .002 under bore diameter and larger.