Good and affordable 22 derim die

[Humbo]

I'm looking into getting a 22 RF derim die for my single stage reloading press while waiting for the complete set and press from RCE (which I'm almost giving up on and thinking about moving on to Blackmon instead). BT Sniper seems to make great dies, but prices are, well, let's just leave it at that. Who else makes a decent, affordable die that will get the job done nicely? I guess this die is relatively easy to make, I've seen people use Lee .224 push through sizers with great results. If I had the equipment I would modify one myself, but unfortunately I don't. I've seen some dies of questionable quality for sale on ebay, but I'd rather purchase from a well known maker, or preferably a member here. But I'd rather not have to put $145 into one.
Thanks.

[BT Sniper]

a pretty good challenge there!

Lets look at what has been requested.....

A derim die to work in standard reloading press,

international shipping

and it needs to be "affordable."

Corbin's is $179 and can be used in a standard reloading press.

BTSniper's is $145 and can be used in a standard reloading press.

RCE's is $85 but one would need his Walnut Hill press.

Don't know if Blackmon's work in a standard press? So one would probably need his press.

Then there are the other questionable dies as seen on ebay. If one is a gambling man one may wish to take a chance, looks like one could pick up a die for cheap but an international order will still have to pay the same shipping cost no matter where/who the die is bought from, or if said die is even offered with international shipping. USPS shipping for a small flat rate box in this case would be $34.00 minimum, I don't know of any cheaper means for shipping then that for international?

One might want to research the results from the Lee 224 sizing die a bit more. Sure it can probably be used to derim 22lr brass with the proper sized punch but the diameter of the resulting jacket will still be too big to properly use for a 22 cal jacket. Everything I read about the Lee sizing die (and the few various sizes I have myself) leaves the jackets at or above .224 in diameter. The jacket is going to have to start out at a smaller diameter then what is made in the lee die to be used to make 22 cal bullets! I suppose one could buy/make a sizing die to reduce the diameter of the .224 jackets after they have been derimed but........ more work and more $$$$

I know of a couple members that have bought more then one brand of derim die and possibly they will chime in with their experiences. But if one is trying to find the "affordable" option....... maybe there is one out there that will allow the user to get a head start on deriming 22lr brass before purchased dies and press arrives but?????

Best advise I have seen when it comes to investing in quality tooling, such as swage dies, is to "only buy once and only cry once."


Good shooting and swage on!

BT

[BT Sniper]

Regarding BTSniper prices....... "BT Sniper seems to make great dies, but prices are, well, let's just leave it at that" is what was mentioned!

How about we take it a bit further and actually look and compare prices.....

The way I calculate it the cost of the RCE 3 die set plus derim die, four cavity core mold and Walnut Hill press that will allow one to make 22 cal bullets from 22lr brass looks to be about $1180 before shipping, if I'm reading his site correctly. Feel free to correct my numbers if I'm wrong. A fair price for good tooling but the difference in cost is not as much as the above mentioned comments would have one to believe.


A BTSniper 22 cal complete starter package with point form die, core seat/core swage die, derim die, 11 cavity core mold, and an auto eject system for the Lee Classic, or any other decent reloading press, can be purchased for $1250 shipped! Even if one didn't already have a decent reloading press the Lee Classic can be found for around $110 online, call it $150 after shipping, to finish a very good set up for making 22 cal bullets from 22lr brass for a total of under $1400 to your door!

Is the extra $220 for the BTSniper set up in this case something one feels is not worth discussing and "let's leave it at that" ......?

Heck if one already had a decent press, subtract $150 for a difference of only $70!

AND THEN!!!!! don't forget shipping for the big WH press and the difference is even less vs. BTSniper free shipping (sure it is not free shipping to international destinations but USPS flat rate will still probably be less then the cost of shipping the big WH press internationally. I suppose if one already had a WH or SG press the savings looks a bit better in favor of the RCE dies but.....).

I don't mean to jump on my soap box here and I certainly invite everyone to research all available products to make educated decisions when it comes to investing in a set of swage dies, but there can be a lot of claims that go unchecked in online discussions. Normally I don't respond to such discussions because my responses could be viewed as bias but I felt some numbers to help show the facts in this case would help to educate others in their potential investments.



Good shooting and swage on!

BT

[corbinace]

I too have thought that I would like to try swaging. I have read bunches of threads about the subject, but the fact of the matter is I do not have the price of the ticket at this time. All of the tools needed just add up to too large a number for me to play.

That said, if I were to be able to make it happen, I would likely choose the tools made by Brian. Posts such as the above, lead me to believe him to be of upstanding character. A lesser person could have taken offense at the OPs characterization and struck back.

I will just have to be content with reading and learning from someone who is willing to take the time to post an informative stream of encouragement.

[BT Sniper]

Thanks for the confidence and kind words. There are many here that will always be happy to help. It can be hard to justify the cost of such tooling with the current surplus of available bullets and ammo on the shelf but....... with elections coming up very soon and an unknown future for the shooting sport for which we all enjoy...... well, it is always going to be beneficial to make and shoot your own no matter who's dies you use.

Nice pic in your avatar there. You know..... a good set of 22 cal swage dies can be had for less then the cost of 10 hours worth of rental time on a typical Cessna 172 now days

If you ever take a flight down here to Hood River give me a call, I'll show you around the shop and make some bullets!

Good shooting and swage on!

BT

[Zbench]

BT, I was thinking the same thing. I've never used any of your dies, but I do admire your work and efforts to provide a lower cost alternative to the commercial makers. I don't know how much cheaper something that probably takes a couple hours of someone's time needs to get. I mean seriously. If you want cheap, scrounge around behind a machine shop in a dumpster, scavenge some tool steel, learn to machine, heat treat and use. Oh wait, that wouldn't be cheap!

[rancher1913]

I managed to catch some bt sniper swage dies when he ran a special on 357 and have made some ok looking bullets, my problem was the core's, either to little or too much but I acquired a core mold from a gentleman on here and hope to start making acceptable bullets soon. my point being that if you have patience you can acquire what you need, and you don't have to break the bank.

[Humbo]

Thanks to all who chimed in.
Well, first of all, only the derimming die was in question, I never mentioned the complete set. I've never doubted BT's quality and workmanship in general, I'm just saying I'd rather not have to put $294 into a die that I'm probably only going to use temporarily while waiting for the complete swaging setup. Yes, it'll run that much, at least. $175 for the die, $34 shipping to me, $33 customs handling fee, 25% tax ($52.25). That is $294.25, probably when all is said and done it'll run a little higher. I don't think anyone can say that's cheap by any means and keep a straight face, considering it's a short time investment.

The swaging I'd rather do on a suitable press. The estimate I got from RCE for the whole package was $947, including the derimming die and swage lube. That did not include a core mold, which I already had custom made by Miha for not much more than the cost of a Lee. Lee molds usually don't cut it for me.

[NoZombies]

If it's a short term fix, one of the Ebay dies might work for you. I've never tried one, but I would be looking for one that has actual photos of the die you're getting, and close-ups, that way you can examine the machine-work at least a little bit before buying.

[Humbo]

@BT Sniper, it was not my intention to offend anyone, I guess I wasn't too adroit in my original post. I guess I have a larger budget than many when it comes to reloading equipment, but still I don't want to spend way too much for short time solutions.
The quote I got from Blackmon was $685 for four dies and the swaging press, shipping and tax comes on top of that. By sea shipping runs around $35 to me.

[BT Sniper]

No problem......

Keep us posted on your progress.

Good shooting and swage on!

BT

[DukeInFlorida]

The "ONLY" tools, whether it be a set, a punch, a die, or otherwise, which I would ever consider buying would be one of BT Snipers. Not only are the bugs all worked out (very little learning curve), but he solidly stands behind his product. I took a leap of faith in the beginning. That was about ten years ago. I have been very happy with every tool I have from him. He continues to support the product, and expand his expertise. His work is solidly on par with any of the other tool makers. I have always considered Brians tools to be affordable.

[kc3ak]

If you do decide to get one from Richard, be prepared to wait, and wait, and wait some more. I waited over a year for a simple single die (LSWC style) then finally canceled the order. Brian, on the other hand, got a complete set off to me in about 2 weeks (he DID have them in stock). Hence, Brian has an order for several dies for me now, and he will receive another order in the spring. You could say, "I trust Brian."

[Utah Shooter]

HUMBO... My ole my how 10 years go by, has it really been 10 years? If you do some digging into the threads here you will find a couple of gents willing to help you out. I would not want to spend over $100 for something that you already have coming your way. I would also not say to use a push through sizer die (unless you can find one for .204) for de-rimming.

That being said you living outside of the US I would not know shipping and how much that costs. I do not know what Blackmon's backlog is but his de-rim die does fit in a reloading press with zero modification from what I remember. The only mod is for the dies that have auto eject (yet another thing you do not have to pay extra for when going with Blackmon).

BT Sniper's prices are not extreme but on the higher end. But he has been around on the forum for 8 years and probable making his own dies for 6ish so I think you will have quality there. Myself? I would contact Larry Blackmon.

[shooterg]

fwiw- for about $10 extra, Lee will make a sizer any diameter. You'd still need to have a punch made. Me, I lucked into a used Corbin press before BTSniper started out, and Mr. Blackmon made dies to fit it. If I hadn't lucked out on the Corbin, I woulda got Blackmon's conversion for the RockChucker. I'd expect delivery time from BT is much shorter - plus he'll be around (We hope !) probably longer than the Corbins or Blackmon. As far as utility all seem to be excellent.

[wmitty]

Humbo

I am also trying to come up with a die to de-rim .22 l.r. brass; I purchased the point forming die from Brian several weeks ago thinking the die for removing the rim and the core seating die would be relatively easy to make using a friend's lathe. Haven't completed either die yet, but watch out for those who are telling you that a .224 Lee push-thru die will work. Just like Brian said, it may remove the rim, but you wind up with a oversize case which will have to be reduced in diameter to be useful as a jacket for .224 bullets.

[GONRA]

GONRA suggests - for a cheap die sets -
consider getting an olde CH Swag-O-Matic on Ebay and making dies.
Verks great for me. Deheads .22 LR Rim Fire and .22 Win Mag Rim Fire cases Just Fine!

[jdfoxinc]

Blackmon Derim works on reloading press. Suptract $595.00 from your quote that is the cost of the Derim. You will pay more for shipping. Hehad dermis in stock before he left for vacation. Presses will be finished Nov. Or Jan. 2017.

[wmitty]

GONRA

What interior/exterior diameters did you use for the punch and die? I've an old swag-o-matic and was wondering if it would hold up to the stress of de-rimming the rim fire brass. I took a piece of steel down to .206" diameter in order to see what diameter was required to enter the mouth of the fired L.R. brass; does this sound about right?

[runfiverun]

for a hundred sumthin bucks.
I'd just go to the sierra web site and order 1,000 jackets.
I got a couple-K match jackets to make 63-65gr bullets for like 95.00 a thousand.
I still need to put some stuff together to streamline the process but for now weight sorting cores is how I'm rolling.
having pre-made jackets in hand is just one less time consuming thing I have to deal with.