Hi tek scraping off in sizing die

[fredj338]

Yeah polish the die. Lee QC is horrible, you can actually see the rough finish in some of them.

[Ausglock]

Remember... HITEK is not a paint like powder coating. It is a coating to isolate the bullet metal from the bore at a microscopic level.
It does not need to be thick like PC.
I have been HITEK coating for 3 years in large batches. 2 coats for everything with all the colours HITEK makes, as well as the experimental ones that don't get to the marketplace.
Yes, I can see some alloy peeking through the coating in some spots. But this is still covered by enough coating to prevent leading in my guns.
eg: look at a hitek coated bullet with "lube groove" you will see that there is no coating in the groove, but it has changes colour to a yellow. this is coating! just not a full coverage.
I have driven 105gn SWC bullets out of a 357Sig at 1800fps with only 1 coat and sized to actually have visible alloy.
Zero leading!!!
Why?? because the coating is still there, covering the alloy, you just can't see it.

There is no way in Hell I will ever Powder coat. far to messy and time consuming standing the bullets up. far easier to dump 250 bullets in a bucket and swirl, dump on a tray and bake.

I'm going through 1 ton of lead per month. that is 123,000 9mm bullets. all HITEK coated with 2 coats. from 105gn 9mm up to 300gn 45bullets. all work.

[AbitNutz]

I'm having trouble with saying the fix is polishing a rough sizing die. This stuff survives a trip down a gun barrel...a sizing die, no matter how rough, is going to breach the coating if it's doing what it's supposed to.

[Ausglock]

A rough barrel will also remove coating. I had a Para 45 that did it badly. Throated the barrel to remove the sharp edge to the rifling and no more leading.
Polish that die and see the difference. I cost you nothing to try it.
All my Lee sizer dies get a polish every few months if they haven't been used for awhile.

[Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings]

When I was casting commercially we were running 1600-1700 lbs of bullets a day through 5 Magma Sizemasters. Never had an issue with coating being stripped off the bullets.
If coating is applied properly, and op stated it passed the 2 quality tests then the sizing die may be an issue.
I have no personal experience with the LEE sizer but I will soon. I just ordered one and will try it out and get some first hand experience with it.

PM sent to OP

[ioon44]

I size on a old Star with the lube pump arm removed and dies made by Lathesmithe.
I have even sized coated bullets that failed the smash test and shot them out of a gun with a good smooth barrel with any leading or any other problems.

One thing I do that is over kill is getting the first coat totally dry before baking and I haven't had any failed test in a long time with doing 2 coats.

[40sand9s]

I have been searching around on polishing the die and not finding a ton does anyone have any tips or a link to a good oos for a how to.

[Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings]

Depending on how rough the interior is you can make a mandrel out of a dowel rod or something similar and use some 600-800 grit (or finer) autobody sand paper and give it a light polish using a hand held drill.
Over polishing will open up the diameter.

I would round the inside edges of the die as well if they are sharp.

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

that's what you gamble on when you use LEE products...

That said, you might try sizing them first like I do.

[Dragonheart]

Problem is anything you do to the die is going to remove some metal, maybe not a lot, but some. If I had a die that the machining was so rough I had to use something that had a cutting action like sandpaper I don't know if I would bother because I can pretty well assure you are going to up the size of the die, but maybe that's ok. For just polishing I use white buffing compound (white cake) on a bore swab. I usually chuck up the die in a lathe and use a cleaning rod to hold the swab or you can use a drill to hold the rod.

For a more aggressive polish I use diamond paste either on a bore swab or on a small piece of Scotch Brand scrub pad, green being the most aggressive. This method will definitely open up the size.

I have had problems with the Lee sizers not being the size indicated, but they have never been so rough as to strip my PC. However, first time for everything.

[Ausglock]

Die get chucked in the lathe and spun. green pot scourer with a tiny bit of Mothers polish does the job.
I opened up the die entry in the lathe to allow better entry when machine feeding the bullets to the die.
BTW.. the Mr bulletfeeder with nose down mod is working 100% fine feeding my auto sizer.
It was a bit slow, so now use a 19 volt power source to run the 12 volt motor.

[Petander]

I am casting lee 356 124 tc and 401 tc and applying 2 coats hi tek just as the directions are saying and both pass smash and wipe test fine. Once I get to sizing I am using lee 357 and 401 push through to size on my lee turret and running into issues.

I have some extra time on my hands right now,reading this board I stumbled into this.

I have two Lee turret presses, they have all kind of slack especially if using one die only. My guess is the bullets are not entering the sizer straight,thus scraping.

I never even thought about using a turret for sizing bullets. They need all the dies in place to align.

[popper]

IMHO, 2 problems. I use a SS Lee press, Lee sizer and have the scraping problem on rifle boolits sized after 2nd coat. Alignment of the press/sizer and crooked GC (or base). Force is applied to one side of the boolit and scrapes. If you get one scraped, smidgen of HiTek is in the sizer and scratches the next boolits. Yes, similar problem with PC - they are plastic coatings that can pressure extrude, crumble and flake off. Worse with harder alloys.
Again, IMHO, hitek & PC are different in that overheated PC acts like shrink tube, gets thinner and splits. Overtemp hitek appears to turn to char and crumble off.

[HI-TEK]

IMHO,
Overtemp hitek appears to turn to char and crumble off.

Popper,
I read with interest your findings as above.
I have never previously heard of Hi-Tek to crumble off, unless it is exposed to above 250C and upwards.
Coating has been cooked for days at 200C it goes black, but smash test shows no flaking or peeling after long bake periods.

I am aware that some Powder coatings will soften with heat. In contrast, Hi-Tek actually hardens with longer or over heating.

Can you please advise what conditions at which you found the Hi-Tek and Powder coat to fail?

[Dragonheart]

To my knowledge a PC that will soften with heat is a coating that was never properly cured.

[ioon44]

I find that when remelting PC coated bullets the coating turns in to a gooey sticky mess, where as Hi-Tek coated bullets remelted turns in to a dry powder and acts as a flux.

[jmort]

Funny to hear the Hi-Tek drones denigrate PC. Is it possible that either or both work just fine??? Seems likely. Is it possible Hi-Tek is not perfect??? Certain it is not perfect. Nothing is perfect. Don't push nonsense to bash PC. BTW, from what I have seen from Hi-Tek since he joined, is zero support of this forum while many members buy his product. His choice, but Lee Precision puts up money and blaming a sizing die for product failure is dissembling at its worst.

[popper]

Hi-Tek actually hardens with longer or over heating. Not denegrating HiTek at all, just trying to describe my experience. Think thermoset vs thermoplastic, thermoset is generally more brittle. Recooking PC, the PC does get soft - epoxy or Smoke's powder.
MY problem may be that my thin fast response probe failed and I replaced it with a larger slower probe. I do see some overshoot when cooking that doesn't seem to bother PC but hitek? I have run PC coated to just below solidus temp of alloy and know what happens. Just did some 185GC & 165GC for the BO with hitek, new acetone, 3 thin coats. Some of the coating seems to have scraped off after sizing the 2nd coat, after the 165 harder alloy. These are basically 3/4" of bearing surface slick sided. When we get dried out and the range is back open they will get shot and I'll see the results.

[HI-TEK]

Funny to hear the Hi-Tek drones denigrate PC. It is very sad to see someone calling people drones, because they have held another view, or have had bad experience and stated such facts.

Is it possible that either or both work just fine??? Seems likely. No doubt, both Powder coating and Hi-Tek coating may work just fine. The problem seems to arise from the fact that people who do not know the technical differences between the two can and do arrive at some misconceptions.

Is it possible Hi-Tek is not perfect??? Certain it is not perfect. Nothing is perfect. NO one is calling any thing being perfect. However, you cannot argue with the facts that many have converted from using Powder coating and now use the Hi-Tek coatings instead.

Don't push nonsense to bash PC. I have not witnessed any one pushing nonsense to bash PC. Some find it great and others do not. Every one can and will have an opinion, and it does not automatically become a bashing fest.

BTW, from what I have seen from Hi-Tek since he joined, is zero support of this forum while many members buy his product. Unfortunately, sir, you are mistaken.

Lee Precision puts up money and blaming a sizing die for product failure is dissembling at its worst.

Many companies do contribute towards various causes both with supply of cash and technical assistance and with products. Financial support, cannot guarantee that any specific product may be found lacking in some respects. It is of concern, that experienced shooters, reloaders finding problems with a product are being attacked for stating those facts. I compare it to cars, some cars are Lemons and others are just fine. Every one has their right to state what they think or determine.
Facts are, that any brand of sizing die or other product can be problematic, especially when being mass produced by machines. [COLOR="#0000FF"] Unless manufacturers are advised of specific problems by the users, they will think all is well and continue as was.


[/COLOR]For those who wish to know some technical matters, heat cured Powder Coatings are designed to be heat set. However, depending on type of polymer and cross linking agent being used, the cross linking/curing will produce a polymer coating that can have various hardness's and varying heat resistances.
What is being missed is, that like all polymers, including plastics, these heat set polymers do have a softening/melting point. Extra heat curing for recommended times, or for extended periods will not significantly affect those final physical parameters.
Some Powder Coatings use TGIC as crosslinker and other use Epoxy type or other agent that will heat set the polymer and these variations can produce polymers varying hardness, flexibility and heat resistance.
After heat setting, the final Powder Coating polymers do have varying heat tolerance and some will soften more than others with heat. That is simple chemistry and facts. Some Powder coatings will work just fine, whilst other will not.


With making comparisons to Hi-Tek coatings, the heat setting of this material, in fact produces a polymer that resist being melted or becoming softened, and in fact, the set polymer becomes harder with extra heat, as many have found. Excessive heat will in fact will turn the product into infusible powder and eventually Carbon. That is significantly one of the major differences between Powder Coatings and Hi-Tek coatings. As we have a saying here, it is horses for courses.

[HI-TEK]

To my knowledge a PC that will soften with heat is a coating that was never properly cured.

Hello Dragonheart,
You are correct, under curing with inadequate heating can cause such softening occurring.
It can happen with all heat cured or heat set systems.

Heat set polymers, and their ability to soften will greatly depend on ingredients used. Some are harder, and some are softer, after being correctly heat cured.
This physical parameter, of becoming soft with heat, simply refers to the softening or melting point of the correctly heat set polymer system.
Once such polymers are heat set, they form a cross linked plastic of sorts. However, these cross linked plastics do have physical properties that are no longer affected with extra heat curing, to increase their hardness or melting points.

In a rough comparison, if you consider plastics, Polyethylene and Polypropylene, they may look and feel very similar, but they will have very different softening/melting points.
There is also low density low molecular weight PE and High density and high molecular weight PE, and are both PE, but will have different melting/softening points.