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Thread: HS-6 with Lyman 525gn Slug load data

  1. #21
    Boolit Buddy Bob in St. Louis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by longbow View Post
    Both turbo and Ajay posted lots on this site. Do a search here.
    Thank you!

  2. #22
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Bob:

    I did not find any HS-6 loads for the Lyman 525 gr. slug in my data.

    I did find a number of 1 1/4 oz heavy field loads for shot. Most ran velocities of 1200 to 1300+ FPS so not bad.

    Oddly the only buckshot loads I found for HS-6 were for 1 1/2 and 1 5/8 oz. buckshot and velocities were the same as above.

    I did find some load data for the 1 3/8 oz. DGS slug so a little heavier payload than the 525 gr. but should be usable. The hull choices are limited though. What components do you have?

    Since HS-6 is usable with the Lee 1 oz. slug and suitable for 1 1/4 oz. shot and 1 3/8 oz. shot loads then it should be perfectly good for the 525 gr. slug but just what charge...?

    So far the best looks like the 1 1/4 oz. shot loads then sub the Lyman slug and suitable wad.

    Longbow

  3. #23
    Boolit Buddy Bob in St. Louis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by longbow View Post
    What components do you have?
    - Lee melting pot
    - Lee 1oz slug mold
    - CB1100-12 (WAA12SL) wads (500)
    - CB1118-12 (WAA12) WADS (500)

    - Herco powder (couple pounds?)
    - WIN209 Primers (700)
    - 75# of raw lead
    - (400) 1 1/8 ounce Federal birdshot shells that are ear-marked for future slug re-casting.

  4. #24
    Boolit Man
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    Thanks for all the info Guys.

    I did load 5 with
    Fed Hull, 12S3, Win 209, HS-6 at 35gn with the Lyman 525.
    and
    5 at the above with the lee 1oz with both clone and fed wads at 38gn.
    I was never a picky Wad guy. But, the difference between the Fed 12S3 and clone is crazy.
    The Fed is so smooth and has no ribs. The clone has thick ribs and very tacky.
    I guess for a shot load the clones would work, but not for slugs.

    The ones with the Fed wad loaded beautiful with a perfect crimp. Made my eyes water a bit.

    I had them at the range yesterday. They army buddies were getting a lot of squibs from 308's and 38's.
    I decided not to shoot them with all the bad luck going around.
    I'll give them a blast this weekend and post my findings.

    Greg

  5. #25
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Yes, wads can make a big difference and in your case with rifled gun likely even more due to rifling engraving so fit is even more critical.

    Try to find wads after you shoot. I always look for wads to see what they look like after firing. I have found that some wads tend to fail at the gas seal which affects accuracy or petals fail which also affects accuracy. Some wads fit better and some wads are tougher than others.

    Also, while I have not loaded the Lyman 525 gr. slug, I have shot a lot of hollow base slugs and found that the wads tend to push into the hollow base unless it is filled or a nitro card wad or two are placed in the bottom of the shotcup. I generally put a 16 or 20 ga. nitro card wad in the bottom of the shotcup before putting the slug in. I probably should have mentioned this sooner before you loaded.

    Also, good to recover slugs, if you can, to see how they behave. If soft lead they will likely slug up some so skirt will compress in length and expand in diameter. If accuracy is good no issues but if not you might want to try a different alloy (harder or softer). Harder alloys may cause petals to shear if the slug doesn't give at engraving.

    Longbow

  6. #26
    Boolit Man
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    Quote Originally Posted by longbow View Post
    Yes, wads can make a big difference and in your case with rifled gun likely even more due to rifling engraving so fit is even more critical.

    Try to find wads after you shoot. I always look for wads to see what they look like after firing. I have found that some wads tend to fail at the gas seal which affects accuracy or petals fail which also affects accuracy. Some wads fit better and some wads are tougher than others.

    Also, while I have not loaded the Lyman 525 gr. slug, I have shot a lot of hollow base slugs and found that the wads tend to push into the hollow base unless it is filled or a nitro card wad or two are placed in the bottom of the shotcup. I generally put a 16 or 20 ga. nitro card wad in the bottom of the shotcup before putting the slug in. I probably should have mentioned this sooner before you loaded.

    Also, good to recover slugs, if you can, to see how they behave. If soft lead they will likely slug up some so skirt will compress in length and expand in diameter. If accuracy is good no issues but if not you might want to try a different alloy (harder or softer). Harder alloys may cause petals to shear if the slug doesn't give at engraving.

    Longbow
    I was just about to ask the found wad question. I was going to look it up first, but here it goes.

    I only shot the 10 loaded with the lee 1oz.
    5 fed and 5 clone,
    The clones were ripped to hell and the peddles were gone and the main base was ripped almost in half.
    The Fed wads were missing 2 peddles and had 2 still on, but they were ripping at the base.
    Both wads did look like the gas seal held up.

    I also had 50x Win hull, Win 209, 1114 clone with card wad and 34gn at HS-6.
    They were totally trashed.
    I'm shooting a Rem .870 Express Tactical with removable improved choke.

    Are the peddles getting ripped when the crimp is opened after firing. The peddles are a good 1/8 under the head of the slug.

    I must stay reloading is very fun. Got into it to save money. LOL. With 5-6k in on dies, presses, lubers and etc.
    I would have to shoot 200k rounds to break even.
    That being said, good tools hold the value.
    Thanks for the input.

    Greg

  7. #27
    Boolit Grand Master

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    It is a good idea to trim the petals back to the shoulder of the slug or sit the slug on several nitro card wads to raise it up if there is room. If not a wad with shorter cushion leg should work or a wad for lighter payload so shorter petals.

    Having said that I have shot slugs with petals sticking out past the slug and recovered wads looked fine. Kinda surprised me actually, but better to have the ends of the petals at the shoulder of the slug however that is achieved. In your case the petals are behind the nose of the slug so should be okay but trimming wouldn't hurt.

    Generally when I have had wads lose petals it is because fit was too tight.

    Can you post a picture of the recovered wads?

    If they are wrinkled then they might be failed due to catching the crimp nut if they are smooth and thin at the bottom (remaining petals that is) then they are likely being sheared due to slug obturation of too tight a fit.

    Are your slugs cast from soft lead or wheelweights?

    Have you put a slug in a wad and pushed it through the bore with a dowel? Ajay (VdoMemorie) recommended a very snug (10 lbs. push IIRC) through the bore but I find an fairly free sliding (not sloppy) fit works best for me.

    How was accuracy? If good then I wouldn't worry too much about the wads much though maybe dropping back a few grains on powder would make life easier on the wads. If accuracy was poor then by all means trashed wads should be rectified and accuracy should improve.

    By good accuracy I mean under 6" groups at 50 yards from smoothbore. Good slug loads should be 3" to 4" at 50 yards... or better, better is always good!

    Are your slugs cast from soft lead or wheelweights?

    If you are going to shoot those Lyman 525 gr. slugs through the smoothbore they may not be terribly accurate, they are intended for rifled guns. Some people report good accuracy from smoothbore but best results are from rifled guns. Also, we had one poster here that claimed that due to the wadcutter design that the Lyman slugs would become unstable at transonic velocities if they were launched at supersonic velocity. That was for smoothbore use. Not a problem in rifled gun. That would tend to occur around 50 yards using typical slug loads.

    I have not loaded or shot the Lyman 525 gr. slug so no first hand experience with that one.

    I am gabbing too much here! I'll shut up now.

    Longbow

  8. #28
    Boolit Buddy Bob in St. Louis's Avatar
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    Don't shut up!
    People like me are learning!

    I've been kicking around the idea of buying a Lyman 525 mold and a Lee 7/8 mold.
    So this thread is helpful. Thank to all you smart fellas posting.

  9. #29
    Boolit Master

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    I've read some are filling the base of this slug with hot glue to prevent skirt collapse. I intend to try it this winter after deer season. I bought a MiHec mold of this design through a GBon this site. The molld is designed to fit inside a shotcup. I also intend to get one of his molds that cast a bore diameter slug. I've got too many projects going.

  10. #30
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Yes, in my experience filling the hollow base is a good thing.

    There are actually two reasons for filling the skirt:

    - to prevent skirt crushing/collapse
    - to prevent wads from being blown into the cavity

    I have experienced both and with regards to skirt collapse, I have not recovered any of my home made slugs or commercial slugs other have shot that do not show skirt collapse. If it is even it should not affect accuracy but if the skirt tilts, bells, nose slumps or whatever leaving an uneven shape then of course accuracy will be affected.

    Any number of things can be used to fill the cavity which supports the skirt and prevents collapse ~ hot melt glue, silicone caulking, wax or basically any lightweight solid filler. The filler both supports the skirt and keeps wads from blowing into the hollow cavity which again will destroy accuracy.

    Also, it is a good idea to put a nitro card wad under the slug in the bottom of the shotcup. 16 or 20 ga. both work well. This helps support the shotcup as well as being a solid support for the skirt. With filler and a flat bottom slug maybe not necessary but it sure doesn't hurt to have it. With wound balls or open bases on the slugs (even Lee Drive Key slugs) it will keep the bottom of the shotcup flat so it doesn't distort into the skirt.

    If the slug is cast from soft alloy or at least up to ACWW the skirt is likely to collapse some at firing (this includes the Lyman 525 gr. slug). I Have not recovered a hollow base slug, homemade or commercial, that didn't have at least some skirt distortion and that includes Gualandi DGS slugs... one exception ~ the Dixie Tusker. If heat treated (the Dixie Tusker was heat treated) or extremely thick skirt then no need to fill to prevent skirt crushing but still a good idea to keep wads out.

    My experience anyway.

    Longbow

  11. #31
    Boolit Man
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    Thanks for all the info.

    Greg

  12. #32
    Boolit Man
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    Quote Originally Posted by longbow View Post
    It is a good idea to trim the petals back to the shoulder of the slug or sit the slug on several nitro card wads to raise it up if there is room. If not a wad with shorter cushion leg should work or a wad for lighter payload so shorter petals.

    --I made homemade Nitro cards from 1/8 hard card stock. They feel and look like the store bought ones.

    Having said that I have shot slugs with petals sticking out past the slug and recovered wads looked fine. Kinda surprised me actually, but better to have the ends of the petals at the shoulder of the slug however that is achieved. In your case the petals are behind the nose of the slug so should be okay but trimming wouldn't hurt.

    Generally when I have had wads lose petals it is because fit was too tight.

    Can you post a picture of the recovered wads?

    ---I'll get pics that my next range shoot.

    If they are wrinkled then they might be failed due to catching the crimp nut if they are smooth and thin at the bottom (remaining petals that is) then they are likely being sheared due to slug obturation of too tight a fit.

    --- The petals that were still attached looked good. No wrinkles.

    Are your slugs cast from soft lead or wheel weights?

    -- Stick on WW. I believe they are pure lead.

    Have you put a slug in a wad and pushed it through the bore with a dowel? Ajay (VdoMemorie) recommended a very snug (10 lbs. push IIRC) through the bore but I find an fairly free sliding (not sloppy) fit works best for me.

    --- Going to try this tonight.


    How was accuracy? If good then I wouldn't worry too much about the wads much though maybe dropping back a few grains on powder would make life easier on the wads. If accuracy was poor then by all means trashed wads should be rectified and accuracy should improve.

    By good accuracy I mean under 6" groups at 50 yards from smoothbore. Good slug loads should be 3" to 4" at 50 yards... or better, better is always good!

    25 yards they were under 5", 50 hitting a 3'x4' target. 100 all over the place.

    Are your slugs cast from soft lead or wheelweights?

    ---Stick on WW. I believe they are pure lead.

    If you are going to shoot those Lyman 525 gr. slugs through the smoothbore they may not be terribly accurate, they are intended for rifled guns. Some people report good accuracy from smoothbore but best results are from rifled guns. Also, we had one poster here that claimed that due to the wadcutter design that the Lyman slugs would become unstable at transonic velocities if they were launched at supersonic velocity. That was for smoothbore use. Not a problem in rifled gun. That would tend to occur around 50 yards using typical slug loads.

    ---I'm going to get a rifled barrel for my gun. I also have a semi that has a rifled barrel.

    I have not loaded or shot the Lyman 525 gr. slug so no first hand experience with that one.

    I am gabbing too much here! I'll shut up now.

    ---Thanks for your reply. Greg



    Longbow
    ---Thanks for your reply. Greg

  13. #33
    Boolit Buddy Bob in St. Louis's Avatar
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    Yip, great info here, thanks to all!

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check