Fired my first black powder cartridges and had some problems

[commando223]

I would defiinitely check for a headspace problem. But I wonder what the line on the neck is all about. Your description doesn't tell us much, but could have you have a ringed chamber (in addition to head space issues)?

Were loaded cases easy to chamber?

Were fired cases easy to extract?

Primers didn't make diddly worth of difference with regard to the issues you encountered.

Could be bad brass, but that's a little bit of a long shot.

Here is an image of the one that actually opened the others had a very fine line in the same place but I could barely see but could feel with my finger nail. All rounds were easy to chamber in and out.

[BrentD]

Well then, my money is with Kurt (Lead Pot). Forget about the primer issues and compression probably is a nonstarter as well

[Washington1331]

I've heard of a similar phenomenon of case separation with BPCR shooters as a result of a "wet chamber". I've never had it happen to me, but from what I understand, its when the chamber is moist with either condensation, or as a result of over zealous wet swabbing without appropriate drying. Basically the water acts as a hydraulic vise, not letting the case mouth appropriately expand to release the boolit. As a result the bullet grips the case neck and tries to take it with it down the barrel. To me, that looks what may be happening based on the location of the split on the neck. It may also explain the signs of high pressure of the primer backing out.

If you look inside the neck can you see any signs of lube grooves from your boolit?

Did the gun come from a cold environment (like car A/C) to a warm one on the firing range? Had you been overly zealous in cleaning and could you not have gotten all the solution out of the chamber?

Just my thoughts. It could be a head space problem as Lead Pot suggests. If you know how to check your headspace, and do a chamber cast I would definitely recommend that before trying again... You can't be too safe! If you're not comfortable performing the checks yourself, I would have your gun checked by a competent gunsmith before trying again.

Here's a link to a thread discussing a similar issue to yours. http://www.shilohrifle.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=23830

[BrentD]

Wash1331, if it was case stretching down the bore, wouldn't you expect to see some sign of the case mouth climbing the throat into the rifling? I've see it happen, and it's pretty unmistakable when it does.

That's why I think it is head space or bad brass.

[Lead pot]

I shoot .44 bottle necked cases in the .44-77 and the .44-90 bn. Before Jamison made good brass for these calibers I used .44 Bell basic and reworked .348 brass. The 348 Win brass has problems with the proper rim thickness and I got a lot of brass getting the necks pulled off because of a head space problem that was only 8 to 10 thousands because of the thin case heads even when I let the breach block finish seating the round but the firing pin when it hit the primer pushed the case forward till it rested in the front of the rim recess and the primers got pushed out. Once the cases that survived and the shoulders got pushed out the problem stopped as long as I dod not push the shoulders back sizing the case beyond just neck sizing.
The powder load will not cause primer setback or the bullets used. Head space will do this. I can dig out a bunch of cases that show what your seeing on your cases. You can measure your head space a simple way if you don't have the proper professional tools.
Go to ACE HDW and get a 1/4 " brass rod long enough so at least a inch is past the muzzle, I suppose a 1/4" wood dowel will work also but I like brass. Now insert a empty case with the brass rod all the way in the case holding both ends when you seat the case till it is in contact with the front of the recess, careful you don't move the case while closing the breach. Best to have the rifle in your cleaning cradle so it's flat horizontal so no weight is on the rod to move the case. Now measure what is sticking past the muzzle and write that measurement down or zero your depth gauge with that measurement. Now push the case back till it contacts the breach block and read this measurement. That is the amount of head space you have. It don't take much to pull the neck on a bottle neck case especially if you set the shoulder back more sizing the brass.
Stretching a case into the throat is usually caused by brass to long for the chamber or a soft case with a heavy crimp on the bullet.

[Lead pot]

Just a little input what I had to do with some these old rollers forming brass from other cases before proper cases were found.
When I formed bottle necked cases for the .40 bn's or the .43's cases or the 11mm with the improper headspace. I annealed the case necks after forming the bottle necks and if there was a lot of head space I would wrap thread on the base ahead of the rim and seat the round in the chamber. The thread would hold the case against the breach block when closing it forcing the case in tight against the breach block. When the shot was fired it would blow the shoulder tight against the chamber taper. Now the case will fit the chamber with it resting against the breach block doing away with the head space as long as only the case neck is sized if it needed it. Now the head space is against the shoulder of the case and not the rim.

[Don McDowell]

Another thing you can try is seating the bullet out far enough that you have to force the block closed, and see if the shoulder problem leaves.
The enlarged/backed out primer is likely from the firing pin hole being to large letting the primer flow back around it, along with excessive headspace.
If neither of the headspace solutions work, then it's likely you're looking at the very least having the barrel set back and rechambered, or a complete re barrel.

[1Hawkeye]

I'm just starting to study the .43's but could it be a .43 Egyptian? And not a Spanish.

[commando223]

I pulled the bullets today and it looks like the wad did get pushed down slightly below the neck. It's kind of hard to see in the pictures but the dark line is where it begins to bottle neck. The powder was also very compressed and difficult to remove I had to use a flat screw driver in a twisting motion to take it out.

The next cartridges I make would have less powder, compression, regular large rifle primers, longer OAL and no crimp.

[Don McDowell]

Well now lets see what happens with the next go round.

[Don McDowell]

I'm just starting to study the .43's but could it be a .43 Egyptian? And not a Spanish.

The 43 spanish case head is just a touch larger than a 45-70. The 43 egyptian is a bit fatter than a 50 cal sharps case head, and the rim is larger than the 50.

[Hogpost]

No disagreement about headspace causing your primer issues, but for those cracked necks: you have a heavily-compressed wad below the shoulder, looking like it's full case body diameter. When fired, this firm disk will be jammed against the shoulder, trying to squeeze down enough to fit through. At that point, its rim will be grabbing that shoulder firmly and trying to shove it forward, which could result in the crack line. I encountered something similar many years ago (young and stupid) trying to fireform bottlenecked brass to straight-wall with an in-body wad covered by Cream of Wheat filler. Not saying that is definitely the problem, but I'd recommend you ditch the wad in this fireforming stage: you aren't looking for velocity or accuracy, just a cleanly formed case. Ditching the wad can't hurt, but it might help.

[RPRNY]

I pulled the bullets today and it looks like the wad did get pushed down slightly below the neck. It's kind of hard to see in the pictures but the dark line is where it begins to bottle neck. The powder was also very compressed and difficult to remove I had to use a flat screw driver in a twisting motion to take it out.

The next cartridges I make would have less powder, compression, regular large rifle primers, longer OAL and no crimp.

Welcome to the wonderful world of BPC! One of the things I most enjoy about BPC loading and shooting is that it can be both less and considerably more complex than smokeless. Often at the same time. There is so much room for refinement and so much of the old knowledge from the turn of the 19th Century has been lost, but often regained and readily shared here, among other places.

Good luck with your next batch and stick at it.

Sent from my KFOT using Tapatalk

[John in PA]

Standard factory load for the Spanish Remington was 77-78 gr powder. 2f would be closest. Anneal cases before firing. If you suspect xs headspace before first fire, test by adding progressive thicknesses of tape to the base and try closing the breech each time. If it takes more than 1-2 thicknesses of regular scotch tape, then fireform first, either by seating bullet to engage rifling, or by the thread trick mentioned earlier. After proper fireforming, adjust your sizing die so that shoulder is only set back barely enough for the breech to close. That should end the separations.
Oh, and mag primers may give more consistent ignition and velocities. (See Spence Wolf's book on loading for trapdoor Springfields for more info there.) They certainly did NOT cause your problem.