Fired my first black powder cartridges and had some problems

[commando223]

I finally made it out to the range with my .43 Spanish rolling blocks and the ammo I made. I fired a total of 8 rounds and I noticed some had a line on the neck that I could feel with my finger nail and one case actually split open and almost went all the way around. Most of the cases had the primer pushed out a bit after firing.

I used 85grains of 2F old eysenford powder
CCI large rifle Magnum primers

I used a drop tube and compression die then seated the bullet to the crimp line with a tiny crimp.

Can anyone tell me where I went wrong ?

[BK7saum]

Sounds like you did everything as you were supposed to. Appears that the cases might have been old and the brass brittle

[commando223]

Sounds like you did everything as you were supposed to. Appears that the cases might have been old and the brass brittle

Thats the thing this is brand new Jameson brass from midway. I was thinking maybe I compressed them too much? or I should have made them longer to make sure the wad and base of the bullet were higher in the neck.

[Skipper]

Thats the thing this is brand new Jameson brass from midway. I was thinking maybe I compressed them too much? or I should have made them longer to make sure the wad and base of the bullet were higher in the neck.

Did you leave any air space between the powder/wad and the bullet base?

[commando223]

Did you leave any air space between the powder/wad and the bullet base?

Nope I think it actually might have pushed the wad down just a bit when seating

[2ndAmendmentNut]

Sounds like an over sized chamber to me. You might try annealing the brass you have left and just neck sizing.


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[BK7saum]

I would also second the annealing of the cases before firing anymore. There has been brass leave the factory with a less-than-desirable anneal. In a tight chamber that would probably be fine but in an oversized chamber they will split. I would say anneal the case necks and then try again

[Lead pot]

commando 223.

This sounds more like a head space problem when you mention the primer backing out and pulled necks.
One thing that could be your problem is which .43 Spanish roller you have.

The .43 Spanish Reformado is similar, but original cartridges use a .451" diameter brass jacketed bullet.

The .43 Spanish (11.15 x 58R) uses a .439" diameter lead bullet.

The .44-77 Remington (aka .44-77 Sharps) uses a .446" diameter lead bullet.

Some of the rollers where made in Scandinavian countries also. All of these can have a slightly different rim and head thickness. S

[sharpsguy]

Listen to Lead Pot. He isn't guessing or speculating. He knows what he is talking about.

[Don McDowell]

Scrap the magnum primer, and go with a standard large primer, drop the charge down to about 75 gr.
If that doesn't help with the deformed cases, probably best to check the headspace, and do a chamber cast to see just what you have to work with in that chamber.

[RPRNY]

Scrap the magnum primer, and go with a standard large primer, drop the charge down to about 75 gr.
If that doesn't help with the deformed cases, probably best to check the headspace, and do a chamber cast to see just what you have to work with in that chamber.

Well worth the effort. It will save you money and vastly increase your enjoyment of this rifle.

I am of the 'no need for magnum primers' with BP school. BP will easily ignite and the 75 - 85 grs range will combust without anything more than the weakest primer you can use. It does indeed sound like a headspace issue to me, with the rim on you brass thinner than the rim recess cut in the chamber. Chamber cast, determine exactly what you are shooting, anneal brass and consider fire-forming brass with a @ 25 0 30 grs charge of BP topped up with corn meal and a was plug in the case mouth.

[commando223]

Scrap the magnum primer, and go with a standard large primer, drop the charge down to about 75 gr.
If that doesn't help with the deformed cases, probably best to check the headspace, and do a chamber cast to see just what you have to work with in that chamber.

That's what I was planning to do the recipe called for 90gr GOEX but at 3" OAL mine was shorter to the crimp groove. I did slug the barrel on these and they are .439. I'm starting to think when I seated the bullet it might have pushed the wad down slightly under the neck. Do you think that would cause this issue?

[montana_charlie]

I'm starting to think when I seated the bullet it might have pushed the wad down slightly under the neck. Do you think that would cause this issue?

I dunno, but you can compress powder without a wad, then seat your bullet on the charge.
That will eliminate the possibility ...

[Toymaker]

Slugging the bore and doing a chamber casting are two different things. 1) Get some Cerrosafe (chamber casting alloy) and cast your chamber. It's easy to do and you get all kinds of interesting information. Important stuff too. 2) Lead Pot and the others that say anneal your cases have the right of it. Hard and brittle cases are the number one cause of your type of problems. 3) Like Don said, dump the magnum primer. Don't experiment with large pistol primers. Use a quality large rifle primer.

[Oyeboten]

Thats the thing this is brand new Jameson brass from midway. I was thinking maybe I compressed them too much? or I should have made them longer to make sure the wad and base of the bullet were higher in the neck.

What weight Boolit?

Sounds like what one might expect with undersize hard Brass Cartridge cases, in an oversize Chamber.

[commando223]

(439 Diameter) 370 Grain

[Don McDowell]

That's what I was planning to do the recipe called for 90gr GOEX but at 3" OAL mine was shorter to the crimp groove. I did slug the barrel on these and they are .439. I'm starting to think when I seated the bullet it might have pushed the wad down slightly under the neck. Do you think that would cause this issue?

That wad below the base of the neck is a real possibility. I shoot 77 grs. of 2f OE in the 44-77's , just drop tubing that charge should get your bullet to seat with just minimal compression and still keep the wad and bullet base well above the base of the neck. RP 9 1/2 primers seem to give the best results with OE.

[commando223]

Well I would like to pull these bullets and start over but not sure how to go about that for Black Powder cartridges.

[Don McDowell]

You can use a regular bullet puller, but with as much compression as you put on those, that powder is likely to be a solid cake, and is going to be pretty hard to dig out of there. You can also just run the case in the press without a die and grab the bullet with a pair of pliers or vice grips and lower the handle.

[BrentD]

I would defiinitely check for a headspace problem. But I wonder what the line on the neck is all about. Your description doesn't tell us much, but could have you have a ringed chamber (in addition to head space issues)?

Were loaded cases easy to chamber?

Were fired cases easy to extract?

Primers didn't make diddly worth of difference with regard to the issues you encountered.

Could be bad brass, but that's a little bit of a long shot.