Awesome....thanks Larry. I also load 7.62x54R with cast boolits. I'm sure this will help!Originally Posted by Larry Gibson
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Awesome....thanks Larry. I also load 7.62x54R with cast boolits. I'm sure this will help!
Alan
Here a target I shot with my Finn M39 at 100 yards in a CBA match this month. I use a Dacron filler in 7.62x54R load.
On the sighter target I had two 10s and 3 low Xs at 6 oclock. I then switched to the record target and the 1st shot was the 6 o'clock 10. I went up 2 clicks (1/2 moa) and started plunking them into the X ring. The 3 0'clock 9 was me, I got caught on the 9th shot when the wind picked up and I didn't catch it.......still scored a 99-7X.
Nothing to do with an AR but it demonstrates the effectiveness of the proper use of a Dacron filler. A Dacron filler in the AR is just as effective, especially with 4895 powder and the faster 7 - 9" twist barrels. The Dacron filler allow higher pressure with a more uniform burn at a lower velocity while functioning the action reliably.
Larry Gibson
Last edited by Larry Gibson; 01-19-2017 at 11:48 AM.
Thanks Larry (I also am experimenting with my two Mosins but thats another thread I'd like to chat with you about). Ok guys....I'm going to have t make a withdrawal from the knowledge bank. Using I4895, I tried 5 rounds of 20.0, 20.5, and 21.0 grains each. Only the 21.0 grains would completely cycle the action, and it was just barely. After each round of the loads, I opened the receiver, pulled the BCG and looked down the barrel. In every case there was a trail of unburned powder. Reading that you guys are getting excellent results with lower powder loads is kinda frustrating! While they seem to be grouping decently, it kinda sucks I have to manually cycle each round! Thanks in advance for any suggestions. Rifle and load info is listed ine earlier posts.
Just now reading Larry's post above i'm guessing I'm a likely candidate for some Dacron filler? If so, going back to the 18.5 grain and laddering back up?
Okay I understand that each rifle is a rule unto itself, but I have questions
1 how much difference is there between H4895 and I4895?
2 would a gas check (or lack of) make any difference in pressures?
3 if length of barrel and gas port is same why so much difference in pressures needed to cycle? Recoil Buffer weight/spring tension difference?
Last edited by autopilotmp; 01-22-2017 at 04:39 PM.
Thought I just take the leap of faith and try adding some filler on a few rounds. Found a glove that was insulated with what appears to be Dacron. Put some tufts down into 5 rounds each of 20.0, 20.5, and 21.0. I'll try those out next week.
Well guys...I tried the rounds with the filler, and still no joy. I have been told that the reason i'm having so much trouble with jams is because the bolt is not being driven back far enough due to reduced pressure. The mechanics of it make sense. I just don't understan how it is working for so many others. BTW...I got a pretty stern admonishment from GunBlue on YT for doing this. He says that reduced loads in semi auto rifles is extremely dangerous. So...I'm giving this one up, I think.
Finally made it out to the range this past weekend. Results were interesting and marginal. I fired to 10round groups at 100yds using my 5x scope and front bag rest.
Both loads were identical except for the actual powder charge. Boolits were weight sorted to .1gn. Loads cycled action properly and no filler was used.
c225-55-rf
PC/GC
coal: 2.115
Powder charge: H4895
Left group: 18.5gn
right group: 19.0gn
Also on this trip I switched out my scope for my new RDS (sightmark ultra shot m-spec) and shot the Army alt "C" qualification course. (25meter scaled targets 50-300meters)
I dropped one shot on the right 100 m target in kneeling position. got a little sloppy trying to beat time since a car passed by the range in the middle of prone unsupported (I always cease fire out of respect/safety for people passing the range).
Comments:
1. on the issue of the odd high flier in my previous session I believe "lube purge" is the case. I eliminated the lube and fired the same load again and did not get the one high round out of either group.
2. the loads from this trip did not group as well as the previous trip think this may be difference without the lube.
3. The next range trip will hopefully include an identical loading of no PC but using a different lube than FWFL. Carnuba Red maybe? (possibly carnuba blue) Thoughts?
4. Brass was landing right close in a nice little pile I really like that. Even out of my dads Mini14 they didn't go far (19.5gn H4895)
Again these are my findings with my loads through my rifle.
Any questions and comments are welcome as usual. Thanks for looking.
Okay, I just got some carnuba blue from WLL. I will be lubing both pc and nonpc boolits and running the same 100 yd test fire to see if this lube will have the one high "lube purge" round.
The end game here is that I would like to do away with pc if at all possible as it is just another step in this process, one I don't really enjoy doing unlike most of the other steps.
Looks good. Going to go get some h4895
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Alan, better to pay attention to those that do it than those that do not. Your YouTube source is misinformed. Have him stop on by to get up speed.
My own carbine and mid length AR's function down to 17-18 grains H4895 with a 55-62ish grain bullet. Dacron is always used because I have seen the pressure/velocity swings (and potential functioning problems) when it is not used. The mid length I have actually runs at lower levels than the carbines do.
Thanks very much. I really want to make this work, and its pretty frustrating that everbody else seems to have success. My AR is DI 16" 1x9 Delton upper...pretty plain vanilla stuff. Should I try gc? I am using IMR4895 with charges from 18.5-21.0 grn.
Alan
Check your gas rings, early on I had a gas ring shear off. After replacing the rings I actually got full function on a load that previously would cycle but not lock open. Not sure if buffer weight might be a factor and could not tell you for sure how to tell which one you have. I also have read on here that the I4895 is a little slower than the H4895. However I would think the loads you were using and the ones with filler should have worked. Seems to me there is something being overlooked we just need to put a finger on it.
It just occurred to me that I havent tried shooting these in another gun. My wife has a Sig AR. Looks like ill be sneaking hers out this weekend!
I took 3o of my cast 223. Pc. 15 gas checked 15 not. Over 18.5 grains of h4895.
50 yards. Hiting steel every shot. Standing
Had several.fail to feed.
Bumped powder up to 19.5 will take out and try again.
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Looking forward to your results. Is this your first time trying cast in an AR?
2nd first was with h335 over 25 grains. Looked like a black powder rifle going off
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Got out to the range today and fired my 100yd 10 shot group with the new lube (carnuba blue). Load was 19 gn of H4895 w/ gc. Was not a great group, think I may revisit this with some dacron filler at a later date. It did however eliminate the lube purge flier that I was getting with my Felix lube. I was seeing some unburnt powder left in the barrel. I will also get some loads worked up with H335 and varget that I have on hand. I think short of getting a heavier boolit for my 1:8 barrel I would have to stick with 18.5 gn H4895 and filler for the best accuracy at 100+ yds. This load was @ 2moa, but for loading in bulk I'm not crazy about the extra step of the filler.
Interesting thing happened at the range today. I was out shooting my ar using the 55gn pill with 19.5 gn of h4895 at 25 yards. At this distance they group really well but what was interesting was I shot a gallon milk jug full of water with my water dropped coww then PCed boolit. I put up a cardboard backer 2' behind to see the fragment pattern as it came out the other side. BUT it left one large round hole about double the size of the entry.
Thought it was a fluke so I did it again but placed another cardboard on the berm to see where it impacted. Unfortunately we could not recover the boolit for inspection but it left the same size hole the second time as well. Pics of the holes in the cardboard to follow.
Attachment 219482
here is another pic with a hole from earlier in the day same boolit making a hole in cardboard for comparison (far right hole is the hole in top picture)
Attachment 219483
Last edited by autopilotmp; 04-28-2018 at 09:02 PM.
Have been working with the NOE 225-70-RN mold playing with alloy, heat treat, and PC. Ran into an issue with the round locking up the gun (sometimes had the same problem with the lee boolit as well). So I did some fiddling and found that the boolit was engraving on the lands, PC was the worst culprit but the non coated were showing engraving as well. Here are the specifics:
NOE 225-70-RN
OAL: 2.243
engraves down to 2.030
Lee 55gn fn
OAL: 2.115
I am wondering what you guys that use these two boolits are loading them to and if you are/have run into this issue. I realize that touching/kissing the lands is ideal for accuracy but it seems that in this case it is (sometimes with the lee boolit) keeping the rifle from going into battery. These are seated so that the gas check is right on the edge of being completely in the case. Any input from anyone here is appreciated.
I'm new to owning an AR, and have just started my journey of frustration.
I've been reading a lot that a .223 chamber has a shorter leade/throat, than a 5.56 chamber. Might you have a .223 chamber?
I actually started my ladder of loads this week. I'm using the Lee 225-55gc with Hornady checks, and PC w/o lube, over Shooters World Tactical Rifle powder. All the way down to 16.0 gr would cycle and lock on empty. No issues with bumping into the riflings.
My results are under "canister powder/" here on CB.
if it doesn't fit, don't force it. Get a BIGGER HAMMER!
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