AR 556 cast loads WIP

[autopilotmp]

Yep it's another cast in AR thread. So I cast a bunch of the lee 55gn rcbs clone boolits up coww/ac, sized 225, checked, and felix lube. Went out for range trip #1, these were loaded with H4895 from 17gn - 20.5gn in .5 increments (did not know about dacron). Found function and what grouped well with my AR at 25 yds 19.5 to 20.5 gn of powder.

Trip #2 loaded up some more of the 55gn but coww/WD this time (still no dacron). This time I weight sorted boolits and sorted out only one brand of cases for this group of loads. Shot from 25yds and 50yds with mediocre results at 25 and dismal at 50yds.

Made a forearm change on the rifle requiring removal of gas block and flash hider. Between flash hider and barrel I found a fairly good amount of lead build up, while not finding any in the barrel. Changed out the forearm and cleaned the barrel crown, reassembled the rifle and proceeded to thoroughly clean the barrel with copper solvent (had not done this after firing the 50 rounds of federal FMJ factory for test fire). Cleaned barrel and action reassembled and went to work at the reloading bench. Also in this time I requested some heavier boolit samples from some of the great members here and received NOE 225-62-FN and NOE 225-70-RN boolit samples. Thinking that my 1:8 barrel needed some heavier fodder to be accurate I added these two boolits to the loadings for the next range trip. Also some extensive reading here led me to using dacron for a filler in the lighter loads for 556. My wife is a quilter so I quickly liberated a few feet of polyester batting (in sheet form) to cut into little squares for stuffing into the cases.

Trip #3 This time I had about 70 rounds loaded, five shots for each load. Here are the specifics and targets. Range was 25yds, shot from bench with front bag gusting right to left wind. Will handpick the best ones and reload stepping it out to 50 next trip.
Powder: Sized: Notes:
H4895 .225 Dacron filler was used in the 18 and 18.5 loads. These two loads were an after thought (read about dacron filler)
Originally this range did not reliably cycle the bolt and would not lock on empty.

boolits used:
lee 225-55-rf
PC/GC/Felix lube
Felix lube/GC
NOE 225-62-FN
Felix lube/GC
NOE 225-70-RN
Felix lube/GC


#1 and #3 are both in the top target. group 1 is a diamond around center with one shot at top right. #3 is around pretty small group around the top right of the diamond with one shot out to the right.

#4 top left. #5 bottom left. #6 bottom right. #7 top right. #8 center.

#9 bottom right. #10 bottom left. #11 top left. #12 top right. #13 center


All of these groups are better than any groups shot in the prior range trips. There are a few groups that had called fliers in them. I however have selected a few loads to carry on to the next phase.

Lessons learned:
- Water dropped or Heat treated coww no softer (with PC being the exception to this)
- Clean your barrel Dumb A.
- Dacron filler will help ignition thus creating pressure need to cycle the AR!

Questions:
- At what point should I stop using dacron filler?
Or just continue to drop the amount of filler used until case capacity is full?
- Does anyone else find this all rather maddening yet fun at the same time?

Thanks for listening I will provide the results from next range trip, any and all input is what we are here for and it's appreciated.

[clearcut]

Nice groups I have the 1:7 bbl and it likes the heaver boolits I haven't ever used filler but I'm using 21 gn. IMR 4895 and it fills the case close to the top the IMR is just a bit slower than the H4895 . Keep up the good work.

CC

[autopilotmp]

Clearcut,
Have you had a chance to load up any of those 55gn Boolits yet?

[clearcut]

I'm hoping to PC them this week, lots of rain this weekend I'll let you know how they run in the 1:7 twist bbl.

cc

[autopilotmp]

Range trip #4,

boolits used:
lee 225-55-rf
PC/GC/Felix lube

lee 225-55-rf
Felix lube/GC

NOE 225-62-FN
Felix lube/GC

NOE 225-70-RN
Felix lube/GC

H4895 was used in all loads
.7 gn dacron in all loads

(INSERT PICS HERE)

Notes:
Did not get results I was hoping/expecting. I attempted to measure the "patterns" with a yard stick. Looks like the best "groups" were @5" not counting a flier here and there. All shots were from 100yds using a 5x scope. No weight sorting was done since I had not intended to go to that extent after finding a load that shoots decent. Also intend to remove scope and at most have an RDS with possible magnifier at some point, and BUIS as well. surprisingly out of these loads I found the little 55grain boolit did much better than I expected. In fact I was expecting the 55gn to be outperformed by the 62 and 70gn boolits. I may need to push these two boolits faster to get them properly stabilized. If that is the case I will stick with the 55gn because I have the mold for it and AT THIS TIME I would not benefit from the expense of a mold to produce the 62 or 70 gn boolits.

The next step in this madness I suppose is to weight sort some of the 55gn naked and pc boolits and shoot them in a couple selected powder charges. I did notice on the heavier charges (20-20.5) a puff of dacron on occasion, did not see this at the lower charges (18.5-19.5).

Questions:
When weight sorting, when should i be weighing and sorting? naked or after gc lube/pc?
What kind of groups are you guys getting at 100yds from your modern sporting rifles with cast boolits?

will post pictures when i can get my butcher paper and targets laid back out on the living room floor.

[CHeatermk3]

When I weight sort boolits I weigh them as-cast. I take it that you're firing your groups' rounds fired fed out of the magazine. This may result in off-center or otherwise mis-aligned boolit in relation to the C/L of the bore.

[upnorthwis]

My opinion is I would not use filler just for the pressure. I don't use any filler with 1:7" twist x 20"lg., 21.6 gr. AA2520, crimped RCBS 55 gr. FN w/PC @2500 fps. It does what I need, 3" @ 100 yd. for 3-gun. For longer ranges I go with J-word.

[runfiverun]

once you get full functioning you can drop the filler.

[autopilotmp]

After comparing my 25yard target to the results of the 100yard target, I have decided to try 18.5-19.5 grains of H4895 with weight sorted 55gn lubed and 55gn pc. Since I am narrowing it down to about 6 loads I think I am going to shoot ten round shot groups (or two 5 round groups) this session. I will drop the dacron in all but the 18.5 load (my notes from prior range session indicates this as not at full function).

On another note I never did give specifics on the rifle being used. It is a build that started from stripped Anderson lower and upper, Anderson 16" m4 profile barrel carbine length gas system. All internals and BCG are PSA. Only using a 1.5-5 scope for the time being until I can get a decent red dot.

Thanks for the comments so far, I will continue to update as I go.

[upnorthwis]

I would ditch the weight sorting too.

[autopilotmp]

What a day yesterday, took two loads to the range for my rifle and fired from 100yds again. I am very happy with the results, although I do have one question on the results for you more experienced cast boolit rifle shooters. So here are the details:

#1
lee 225-55-rf
PC/GC/Felix lube
weight sorted using only one group iirc 56.9 grn only
COAL: 2.120
Primer: Winchester SR
Powder: 18.5gn H4895


#2
lee 225-55-rf
Felix lube/GC
weight sorted used 56.6 and 56.7
COAL: 2.120
Primer: Winchester SR
Powder: 19.5gn H4895


pic of full target


Notes:
- both groups had the one flyer that went high. The PC group flyer was actually off the target but straight up no windage deviation.

- the low left shot from the pc group was a called flyer I jerked the trigger and knew it.

Questions:
#1 what could cause the one high flyer out of the group? Lube purge?
#2 would not lubing a group of pc boolits be the easiest way to identify if it is lube purge?
#3 what more could be done to shrink the size of this group?

again thank you for reading all of this, your advice and comments are appreciated.

[popper]

Was the high flyer the first shot? Your lubed boolits are 1 gr. hotter than PC, might be at a node. Lubing PCd gives a few fps but I don't do it. I chamber by hand when working a load so I don't get any nose dings.

[autopilotmp]

no first round was in main group, as it was off the target I don't know for sure the exact number but it was not first or last shot. If I recall correctly it was @7th shot.

Yes the lubed were 1 gr more powder than pc because of the group size at 25yds and initial 100yd group size. I may download the lubed boolits to 19gn and use all same weight to tenth of a gn to see if the group shrinks.

I have also pc'd some that have just a check w/ no lube sorted these by weight as well so I can look at the lube purge question.

[leadman]

I have shot quite a few 22 cal boolits in my 223/ 5.56 Contender and AR along with the 22 K Hornet. I have found the easy road to good accuracy is to cast the boolits of linotype. Fewer culls, better accuracy and no leading.
As an experiment with coating boolits with Hi-Tek coating I heat treated the linotype boolits. This allowed me to get over 3.600 fps in my 23" Contender 223 Rem barrel. Better accuracy is around 3,000 fps.
Many of the groups in my guns will run around 1" at 100 yards with linotype, copper gas checks, and Carnuba Red lube or Hi-Tek coating.
I previously used Hi-Skor powder in my Contender for a load duplicating the 22 WMR. Out of that powder so have to work up a new load.

I did find that the Hornady copper gas checks gave me the best accuracy followed by the Gator copper gc. The aluminum works good in loads less than 2,000 fps, but not as good as the copper.

[Alan Bycroft]

Hi guys. Tried my first attempt for casting boolits for .223, powder coating with Smoke's Flame Red, no gas checks. Following this thread, I used your recommendations for IMR4895. Loaded up 5 rounds at 18.5, 19.0, 19.5, and 2.0. Headed out to the range to try them out at 25 yards just to see if I could get them on paper. Aside from not having enough power to completely cycle the action on my AR, I was very pleasantly surprised with the results. You may notice there aren't holes in the target that was meant to be for the 2.0 grains. First shot, pulled the trigger and "click". I pulled back the charging handle to eject the casing which came out with some difficulty, looked in the chamber and closed the bolt to try the second shot..."click"..nothing. Cycled back the bolt and ejected that round. Wondering what was going on, I opened the action, pulled out the bcg and looked down the bore...something was stuck in there. It finally dawned on me that when I pulled out the first casing, which didn't have a bullet on it, the bullet was actually stuck just inside the rifleing...the second round didn't fire because it didn't fully go into battery. THANK GOD!!!! Seems my rifle is smarter than I am. Literally dodged a bullet on that one! I went home, kind of shaken about what might have happened, and cleaned up the rifle,, set my remaining rounds to 2.165 and loaded up a few more in stages to 21.5 grains.

[autopilotmp]

You know I have had a couple that failed to fire and had to use force get bcg to open and extract round(never had one pull the boolit). Never even thought it might be length issue since only occurred couple times through @200 rounds. I did make a few dummy rounds to check length and feeding before loading, but I did not use PC boolits for this test.

I still have yet make it out the range to fire my non lubed pc boolits to see about lube purge theory.

In early testing th 18.5 grn load was on the cusp of function. But I found that one of my gas rings had gotten damaged, after replacing them found this load to work quite well and could probably download and use filler. However this seems to be a node for my particular set up.

Alan:
What rifle set up do you have?

[Alan Bycroft]

It is a Del-ton 16" barrel in 1x9 twist. I have read a bunch of threads that talk about fillers, but have yet to see where anybody has said why is it done, what does it do, and when you should or should not. Not to mention what material to use?

[TenTea]

Last year, I embarked on an AR cast bullet adventure and found success with:
An iron sighted A2 rifle.
A twenty inch, 1:14 twist barrel.
Saeco 221 gas check bullet, sized .225" and lubed with *Old NRA* lube.
20 grains IMR4895 = full function with no filler used or required.
Loaded to magazine length.

I started discussion here and finished it on Goodsteel's forum with some former (now current again) CB members.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...4-barrel-twist

[Larry Gibson]

It is a Del-ton 16" barrel in 1x9 twist. I have read a bunch of threads that talk about fillers, but have yet to see where anybody has said why is it done, what does it do, and when you should or should not. Not to mention what material to use?

Proper use of fillers; http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...use-of-fillers

Larry Gibson

[Alan Bycroft]

Thanks 10T...looks like I'm on the right track with the loading. I pc my boolits and size them .225, then crimp with Lee FCD. If it will stop raining long enough this Saturday, I'll try out my 20 grain load. I'll also check out your link.