fillers for fire forming

[smokeywolf]

I wouldn't DARE try that where I live. Talk about wildland fire-starting, with enhancements for aggravated mopery and intent to gawk.

Brings back memories. As I recall, that was, "mopery and gapery with intent to gawk". And don't forget, the other all time favorites, "comtept of cop" and "ugly in public".

I don't use filler. Just a mild to moderate load.

[WRideout]

I haven't tried it myself, but I suspect you want something granular that will flow. Fibrous stuff tends to wrap together.

Wayne

[rfd]

i'd never use fillers but i do use a straight wall expander and not waste powder, lead nor primer.

[alamogunr]

see post number-6
the brass needs to have the molecular structure aligned properly and the only way to get there is with pressure and heat.
I routinely use jacketed loads to fire-form my cast boolit brass I want to make my 'best' loads with.

I have some 110 gr. jacketed that I ended up with in some trade a few years ago and that I have no use for. Would these work to fire form some 7.65X53 Argentine that were formed from .270 Win? I tried COW and the end result wasn't satisfying. My powder charge may have been too light. I'm comparing new brass with the fire formed brass.

[DonMountain]

I have some 110 gr. jacketed that I ended up with in some trade a few years ago and that I have no use for. Would these work to fire form some 7.65X53 Argentine that were formed from .270 Win? I tried COW and the end result wasn't satisfying. My powder charge may have been too light. I'm comparing new brass with the fire formed brass.

I believe that a boolet of small weight helps the powder combustion provide the pressure required to swell up the case to the chamber while forcing the casehead back to the bolt. I recently converted some Winchester 30-30 brass to 32-40 Winchester by just resizing in the 32-40 die without the expander ball to reduce the casing to fit into the chamber, and then seated a .308 boolet of about 115 grains and only 5.0 grains of Red Dot and fired them in the 32-40 rifle. The added pressure of the smaller boolet forced the casing out to look just like it was made that way. Perfectly smooth and ready to fire with the 32-40 cast boolets.

[GONRA]

Ballistics in Scotland - GONRA knows from actual (unfortunate) experience
shootin' 7.62x54R Russian in a 1940 Tokarev rifle decades ago,
that TOO MUCH (cut off point difficult to determine!) "fluffy filler"
WILL get compressed to the "material’s solid density" whilst moving thru the cartridge shoulder and neck.
Having it CONTINE thru, then out-the-barrel requires EXTRUSION PRESSURES
that are FAR HIGHER than the CHAMBER PRESSURES we are used to dealing with.
KABOOM!!!!!

(My “misadventure” began with (Hatcher’s?) American Rifleman
cast boolit for full powered .30-06 and 7.62mm NATO article waaaay back in 1960’s. After that, American Rifleman eventually retracted the “filler advice”. No explanation WHY, but there MUST have been some “KABOOMS” with guys who used ”too much”,)

[racepres]

I don't have any secret recipe..For 22/30 Oresky [22/30 MMJ] I use Whatever bullet I'm going to use anyway.
For 7TCU, I use Boolits touching the Rifling and mid to slightly higher Loads.
6mm- '06, and reformed ctgs of whatever '06 class to 7X57 or 8x57 get a stout load of Unique, or half that of Bullseye, fill case with cream of wheat /cornmeal/malto-meal...etc...then press a plug of Bullet lube that has been melted into an ashtray...about 1/8 inch or a bit less thick and cooled, into the mouth of the case...
If the Primer protrudes...ya need more powder! [regardless of filler vs projectile].
I especially like to fireform 8X57's with "cornmeal filler" in Milsurps...It has a sort of bore cleaning effect!!!!
Or I might be Hallucinating that last bit...

[leadman]

My Encore 7mm Rem Mag 28" barrel has a slightly long chamber from case to belt. This is not the measured headspace with a belted case so there seems to some variation in this dimension, along with the new cases being short from the belt to the shoulder. I have even measured some cases with belts on the small side. This lead to very short case life, even when fireformed with a bullet jammed into the rifling. Twenty grains of Unique and the rest of the case filled with Cream of Wheat and a wax plug to keep it in forms the case fully and case life is more than 5 loading this way.
When I form 30-30 to 30-30 Ackley Improved I do as Ackley wrote. I use a stout load with a bullet, cast or jacketed, and they form well on the first shot.
I do believe that there are times when one method is more effective than another.

[firefly1957]

Funny you should mention shredded paper i had a big tang jar full of the bits from the old paper computer tapes i used it for years then ran out not i use cream of wheat .
,Things to never use is flour or corn starch under pressure they turn to rock! I was trying to make a fireball noise maker for a reactive target had a strong pipe we would put black powder in and the shot would set off the charge if it hit the target containing percussion caps. Normally we put sand over powder i tried flour and it blew the pipe up ! The flour was caked to the pipe sides and hard as a rock what was blown out did not light either .

[msinc]

I have to ask.....what is the problem, or have you had a problem with cream of wheat, to the point that you have to seek another "stand-in"???????

[racepres]

I have to ask.....what is the problem, or have you had a problem with cream of wheat, to the point that you have to seek another "stand-in"???????

I have never. have run some pretty aggressive FF loads thru Milsurps [..I use corn meal/cream of wheat etc, because as I stated earlier...I feel it may have a "scrubbing" effect on the Bore!!
I like it because it is Bulky but don't seem to Compress into a "Blob". Paper??? no thanks i'm thinking too dense..fold and stay folded...

[SlowBurn]

Thanks all for the responses.

Funny you should mention shredded paper i had a big tang jar full of the bits from the old paper computer tapes i used it for years then ran out not i use cream of wheat .

Would have considered using computer card punches if I still had some left. How tight did you pack the paper tape bits?

I have to ask.....what is the problem, or have you had a problem with cream of wheat, to the point that you have to seek another "stand-in"???????

no problem - just considering options - the paper patch guys seem to like the cleaning action from their paper; just thought paper might be helpful for fire-forming too. If someone knew a guy that heard from another guy that his third cousin, twice removed tried it and blew up his rifle, then I'd be less likely to try it out.

thanks again for the feedback

[Taylor]

Grits

[racepres]

Grits

LOL
Lucky for me I like grits...but, I am Wondering if it does a better job of Bore Scrubbing than Corn meal??

[Taylor]

I used grits to make .410 of .303 brit. Worked fine,took about 3 firing's.Now I have a 50 round box of brass .410 shells.Kinda short for my bolt gun though.But they look pretty.

If you think about it,grits come from corn and are courser. (?,did I spell that right).

[racepres]

I used grits to make .410 of .303 brit. Worked fine,took about 3 firing's.Now I have a 50 round box of brass .410 shells.Kinda short for my bolt gun though.But they look pretty.

If you think about it,grits come from corn and are courser. (?,did I spell that right).

I don't do Spell-check...but, I only needed 2 Firings to get my 303 to 410!
I am using a card overpowder wad,and a card over shot, then Wax.
Are you using a "wad"???
OOps...Major side track!!!!

[Taylor]

Same here,but I did find that if I annealed them first,I got a better piece of brass.---sorry OP.

[racepres]

Same here,but I did find that if I annealed them first,I got a better piece of brass.---sorry OP.

Biggrin!!!!

[Reverend Al]

I used grits to make .410 of .303 brit. Worked fine,took about 3 firing's.

I've been fire-forming .303 British into .410 Musket for my single shot smoothbore No. 1 Lee Enfield and have had great success with 6.5 grains of Nitro 100 (old formula), 1/4 sheet of toilet tissue, cornmeal to just below the case mouth, and another 1/4 sheet of toilet tissue to hold it all in place. They "snap out" into fully formed cases in one go ...





I used the same fire-forming load in Norma 9.3x74R cases to fire-form 50 rounds of full length 3" .410 brass shotgun hulls and to form some "shooter" brass for my .40-90 Ballard No. 5 Pacific ...

[Reverend Al]

The funny thing is that the exact same load in my .410 O&U shotgun fully formed the 9.3x74R cases right down to the bases, but in the Ballard they formed about the top 2/3'rds of the case and the bases are still just slightly undersized. They'll blow out all the way on the next firing with a full charge of powder and a 400 grain cast boolit though so not to worry ...