Since TSA took over "Airline Security" I have not tried to travel anywhere I cannot drive myself, so a trip to FL from CA is not in my Present Plans.
Thanks for the Invite though. I do have another friend who presently lives in Jacksonville area.
Best Regards,
Chev. William
Yesterday, I took a Ruger Stainless Steel 6-shot 22-MAG cylinder to my 'Favorite' Gunshop and discussed it with the Boss of the Shop.
I had bought it off Ebay for $20.00 plus shipping as it was described as having "Rust Spots and some pitting" by the seller and no one else bid on it.
Upon Receipt I saw that the Described Condition was mostly True as it did have pits in/on it, but no 'rust' was evident. Then I got out a 10 power Loope and started looking closely at the Pits. OH MY GOD!
One "Pit" actually looked like a 'Blow Hole in a Poor Casting" and had a small opening in the outside rim rebate that opened into a large void inside the Outer wall of that chamber. Several more Pits looked like smaller 'blow holes" that had been Machined away in the Automated Machining Processes used by Ruger.
The cylinder showed no evidence of ever being fired, or even Cycled in the original firearm. it was marked with a Vibratory Engraver on the 'muzzle end' with a three digit number and a symbol, so it was 'Fitted by Ruger' to a Revolver frame originally. How it got through Ruger Processing I just Do Not Know.
It is now with my gunshop to try to see if they can get an exchange cylinder from Ruger, possibly with some of the Cost deferred for this 'defective' one, as I do not wish to send my .25Caliber long barrel Revolver Back to Ruger with this cylinder.
Ruger will not sell Cylinders to the general customers unless THEY get to fit it to the Firearm it is to be used in. And Ruger will not fit it to a Customized Firearm until the firearm is returned to Original Shipped Configuration again.
I do not want my .25 Caliber Ruger Single Eight returned to .22 caliber, nor to Single Six, and my 10-5/8" Custom .25ACP barrel replaced with a Standard .22 Ruger Barrel with the frame restored to RIM FIRE from its Current CENTER FIRE arrangement.
Now We will need to wait to see what Ruger Decides to do/offer.
Best Regards,
Chev. William
Last edited by Chev. William; 12-13-2016 at 04:33 PM.
Very Interesting Reading
Sounds like you are having some fun anyway!!!
My Single Six in 32HR, will digest 32 S&W's, and 32CP's Just fine..For some reason, there is a Very slight "rim" on the ACP's and the ruger holds them well, and they shoot plenty good...even with a long trip to the forcing cone..
I suppose, given a very long time, damage may occur to the cylinder...but, it has not to this point...Many. [I don't remember how many but more than 15] years later...
Your method is Intriguing just the same...
Lets see it when closer to "done"
racepres,Originally Posted by racepres
"Fun", "Entertaining", "Enjoyable", and reasonably 'economical' it is. I currently an working with my gunshop on oth a .25ACP series Single Eight (Converted from a .22 Cal Single Six) Ruger and a .32 H&R Single Six Ruger. The Latter is a possible candidate for rework to take 6-shot Cylinders chambered for .32 Colt Short and Long along with .32 ACP, .32 S&W short, .32 S&W Long, and 32 H&R Mag.; but with the Cylinder made with enclosed Rims instead of Exposed like Ruger did. The conversion cylinders will be made from .22-Mag. Cylinders by boring and Cutting The New Chamber(s).
Currently my gunshop has both a Blued Alloy Steel and a Stainless Steel .22-Mag. Cylinder to use in Trial boring and chambering. IF This is successful, Then I wil consider having my .32 Ruger Barrel set back to fit the Revised .22 to .32 Cylinders. This is because The .22-Mag based Cylinders have their Main body Bulk Set back toward the Recoil face by about .050" compared tpo the Center fire cylinder with its exposed rims.
Our Hope and intent is to use the SS cylinder(s) for the Colt diameter Cartridge family and the Blued Steel ones for the S&W diameter Cartridge family. This will of course Limit the Possibility of using any cartridge loaded longer than 1.400" Over All Length.
A custom Hand load of .327 Federal Magnum Cases would be possible with a Full Wad-Cutter Bullet set Deep in the case, to stay under the 1.400" length limit.
I find that Being Retired, is Better if I do Keel somewhat active both in Hobbies and in Part time Work (to Keep The Bills Paid).
Retirement is NOT otherwise Fun as Taxes and Utility Bills Keep going up and my Retirement Payments do NOT keep up. a one plus Percent increase just does not keep up with two Percent increases in Property taxes nor with the Greater percentage increases in my Utility Bills.
Luckly I am Still in good health and can keep accepting 'Work Calls' from my Union Dispatcher
For the Typical one day of work each as available throughout the Year. Steady State Employment in the Movie Industry is a thing of the Past it seems, especially for those over 65-68 years old.
Best Regards,
Chev. William
Chev,
Your posts on small bore center-fire revolvers in combination with my lead usage vs re-supply deficient situation inspired me to travel a somewhat similar path.
Just thought I would say thanks and share the path I am working my waydown.
It all started with joining a local indoor range that is only a five minute drive from the house. Between me, my youngest boy (and a then adding a shooting buddy I cast for) my usage got to where I was buying 5 gallons of wheel weights every couple of months. I was also on a good streak of sourcing some scores on soft lead. All of the above dried up at the same time after I got complacent.
The first thing I went after was easy. For my contender shooting, I dusted off a 30 Herrett barrel, made my own 60 grain RF flat side mold and got happy pretty fast. For this mold, planned lube is mostly BLL with ASBB PC using HF red for anything more than mild. This turned out to be an easy and excellent choice for off hand practice with a TC. Definitely less cost than 22s.
Next was the urge for a revolver. A new Ruger SP101 or Single seven in 327Fed both seemed to be somewhat available. On my second attempt, a local dealer quoted me a reasonable price for him to order me a 4.2”SP101 with nothing more than a phone inquiry (how could I resist).
In advance, my big concern with the gun was brass. I had some range pick up S&W long, some 32 Auto & some of those really short little 32 S&Ws. I looked for deal on used brass and found nothing. I gagged on the starline premium for a batch of 327s. I came up with a way to convert 223s, but was not sure how well it would work out.
I bought and received (thanks Titan) Lee 32 H&R mag reloading dies and a 0.314" Lee sizing die before my gun showed up at the dealer.
First batch of ammo included a handful of S&W longs and a handful of 327s I made from 223s. Boolits were from my 60 grn mold polished out a little and sized down to 0.314". This first batch was all BLL lubed.
All the S&W longs both shot bad and left really nasty residue in the chamber that made it tough to go from shorter to my longer cases without breaking out the cleaning equipment and more than a little elbow grease.
A good portion of my 327s I made from 223s were tight in the chambers. I also had a couple of FTFs. I blamed the FTFs on the thin rims and a bigger than expected gap behind the cylinder. Later I remembered primer seating issues (some may have been not fully seated). For the tight chamber situation, I was hoping to just cull the 10% or so with the thickest case walls. Pretty much all of these cases were also filthy black on the outside.
Worse than all of the above, the gun leaded badly.
For the leading, the standard checks found an obvious problem. The barrel was as expected (0.312") but the throats were closer to 0.315". I took my brand new Lee 0.314" sizer die, wrapped some 300 grit wet or dry around a wood dowel, stuck the dowel in a drill and polished the ID of the sizer. It took a couple of rounds "of polish then check the results", but soon I was sizing at 0.315".
When I went to increase the boolit OD on the mold, I messed the mold up. There were also some improvements needed. The new & improved mold now drops 56 grain pills. This little short boolit with flat sides really makes for high production from my two cavity mold. Last Sunday I did a batch of over 600 with probably say 50 rejects and with only around 3 hours in the shop (including setup, heatup and a brief 15 minute mold repair for a loose pin).
The bad side effect of going from 0.314” to 0.315” was that it really forced me into case wall thinning. I assembled a rig where I drive a case on a mandrel and then I turn the OD to thin the walls. Crude and tedious, but I felt had to do something. I made up a test batch of thinned cases.
With the thinned walls and the 0.315” boolits, shooting was good and there was no leading. Cases were still black on the outside and FTFs were still a problem. The second trip also included some PC coated boolits with more zip.
When sizing the cases from trip 2, the force required was inconsistent and just felt wrong but I decided with was something I would deal with later.
I thinned up a double handful more cases and loaded most of them. In response to the FTF issue, I came up with a way to try to adjust the rims and do better primer seating on a small portion of these. About then, I realized that the brass was just too hard. I annealed a dozen or so, loaded them and headed back to the range.
At the range, the annealed cases cured the black OD and felt much better during subsequent sizing. The rim adjustments seemed to work pretty good.
I now have a little over 100 that are thinned, annealed and have improved rims. However, after loading them up, I found that about 25% are still about 0.001” to 0.002" bigger than I want. I marked them for another pass of thinning after I shoot them.
Although making my own 327 cases from 223s has been a lot of pain & effort, it has also been kind of rewarding. I will probably do another batch using my lessons learned and try for an inventory of over 200.
The effort has been worth it in that I already know that I now have a real sweet shooting little target practice gun that is very happy spitting out large volumes of low power (probably close to 32 auto) level loads (3.1 grains of Titegroup under a 56 grain BLL lube boolit). It will also make a much bigger bang when I want. Currently I am doing 4.3 grains of Titegroup under PC coated pills, which is not even close to max based on the Hodgdon listed 5.6 grains of Titegroup under a 85 grain J word.
All I can say is ...You cats sure put alot of labor into yer Lead Slingin!!!
I'm satisfied with a few Wildcats, and my Milsurps...
Oh...and a couple of older Standard types...
Entertaining to see what other folks are doing tho...
Maybe one of yas should have gotten a Dan Wesson...Some of the same things Going on...
I concur...the older I get, the more simple I want my shooting.
I just shoot more of the simple stuff to make up for it.
Last edited by shoot-n-lead; 12-14-2016 at 03:36 PM.
P Flados,
Your Trip into Forming .327 FM Cases from .223 Brass is Very Interesting.
I have Bought some Empty New Brass at my Local Reloading supplies store for About $19.00 a Bag of 100 for .32 H&R Mag and .327 FM cartridges (The cases are Starline Head Stamp). Both have been used to experiment with Swaging down to .32 Colt diameters. I Feel Lucky that I can Occasionally find such deals to Experiment with. I noted that Midway had a 'Sale" on .327 Fed. Mag "Starline" Empty brass a While back at about $21.00 a Hundred. So it is sometimes Available on line at 'Reasonable" Prices for Frugal User needs.
racepres,
Yes, The Labor is more than 'buying off The Shelf' ammo and cases but I have more Time than Money at this time in my Life.
shoot-n-lead,
The forming of .25 Cases is a needed Effort to get some of my older firearms "Speaking" again as .25Stevens (Long) Rim fire ammo is not Commercially Available now, it is all "Collector Priced".
The 'One Time' costs to convert a Stevens Favorite or Model 44 to Center Fire is Well Spent in my opinion as i tallow s Reloading instead of 'one use' shooting. Besides I paid for the conversions back when I was still getting 'Work Calls' relatively Steadily in my early Retirement.
The Two Ruger Revolvers Are Late Purchase and Projects to get Strong Action Firearms for Load Developments that woudl strain the Stevens Actions unnecessarily.
Best Regards,
Chev. William
Hey buddy, I fully understand what you are doing and why...don't blame you at all. I have just resolved to try to not get off into the things that I have in the past...it eliminates all those loose end that need to tied up.
All is good...and ENJOY it...you are blessed to be able to pursue these things.
The use of the "made from 223 cases" would possibly have been a lot easier with "lucky" dimensions:
- Chambers on the big side (mine were more "typical")
- At spec barrel (mine was right on, 0.312")
- Throats in on the small side (mine were 0.315", I wanted 0.312" - 0.313")
- Gap between the rear of the cylinder and frame normal (mine looks way oversized, I have a big gap even with S&W longs)
I doubt I will ever see a revolver with such dimensions.
To do what I did requires some removal of brass on the OD of the case above the rim in the solid web region. Planning to thin the cases all the way will not be than much more effort for many that have access to a little better tooling than I had. Anybody else wanting to try this should also plan on annealing right up front before the first loading with the cases.
Now if someone wanted to do something like this for say a break open with a 0.308" barrel, but a 32 H&R Long or 327 chamber, a thicker than normal case wall could actually be a good thing.
Last edited by P Flados; 12-14-2016 at 11:05 PM.
P Flados,
With the .223 Base diameter at about .375" and the .327 FM at about .337" it seems you have a Difference of about .038". Swaging would Seem To take Multiple Stages if about .006" to .007" is allowed for each stage of reduction. I would Guess that the 6 or 7 Swaging Stages indicated would leave the Base Very Hard indeed due to Work Hardening. I suspect You would also see the flash hole Shrink in Diameter from Swaging and it would need to be re-drilled back to typical diameter as an added Step.
I can see that your process of Turning The Base down may be good with your tooling, But I would caution about thinning the 'Web to Wall' Transition as it nmay cause Premature failure by separation of the Base From the case Wall.
From Your Write-up, you have a Viable process to make Cases already. I just Suggest Swaging as an alternative to be thought about.
Best Regards,
Chev. William
Berfore I ever bought anything, I did some prototype conversions with "thinning the 'Web to Wall' Transition" being a focus item.
My brass is thinner in this region than I wanted, but I should be ok. Based on a few I cut up, most should be at least 0.020" where I am having to thin to 0.005" at the neck. If I had a heavier press I could be more aggressive with getting be brass swaged further down into the transition region.
Fellows, when you get to where you are going, you'll be in a good spot.
Although my initial experiences with my Single 7 were less than good--it ended up going back to Ruger--these days it is one of my favorites. On a lark, I took some 32 ACP, 32 S&W Longs, 32 H&R, and 327 out to the range and had a fine time plinking away. Even the stubby 32 ACP cartridges with their 73 grain boolits grouped reasonably close to one another, though the .311 boolits in them left some leading for me to clean up when I got home. Just in case, I had started long with the 327 and went down according to length.
It is pretty neat being able to shoot pretty much any 32 ammo I can find, with the same gun.
_________________________________________________It's not that I can't spell: it is that I can't type.
I put together some photos today.
Lovely Photos indeed.
The ones of the case forming and the cross sectioned one are very informative.
It appears Your are getting some Swaging at the Web to Wall Junction then Machining the Base down some to get it close to final dimensions before a final Sizing Pass that leaves a slight taper on the Base above the Rim. The cross section does show the difference in the swaged down Wall and the turned down Wall to web transition area.
Your .020" measured wall at the web to wall transition does sound adequate for Useful case life in my humble 'amateur' opinion.
My Swaging of .22 Hornet Brass measured .014" to .016" at the Base to web Transition area, with the wall Tapering down to .010" to .008" at the old shoulder and Mouth.
This was with my Swaging in one step from roughly .300" down to .280" diameter just above The rim and about .276" diameter on the body.
I have not sectioned any of the later, multiple swaging step, formed cases since my experiences seem to indicate adequate wall thicknesses are present.
I had also tried Swaging Brass tubing to make Adapters for .25 Cal Powder Actuated Tool Loads (PTL) to fit my ,25 Stevens chambers ( about .280 diameter at the rim) but have abandoned that approach due to the tubing expanding and releasing the PTL blank case upon firing, making the tube a bother to extract.
I also found that .27 Cal PTL, measuring .268" to .269" diameter, fired in my .25 Stevens chambers do Expand to seal the chamber and do propel a breech loaded bullet down range with plinking accuracy out to at least 100 yards from a 21" to 22" barrel (I have not tried longer ranges as my ankles do not like the Hiking over rough ground of my local Commercial Outdoor Shooting Range).
Best Regards,
Chev. William
I have Completed Swaging Down a 50 Case batch of Starline .32 S&W Long To make .32 Colt Long cases and turned the "roll of Displaced Brass" off just above The rim with a Yield of 100 percent using my "two Step Swaging Process.
I Also completed Swaging down a 50 Case batch of Starline .327 Federal to make .32 Colt Extra Long Cases and turned off the "roll of Displaced Brass" off Just above the Rim with a yield of 94 Percent (lost three to Bellow deformation due to pausing in the swaging process.
The turning was completed on my friends Lathe This Afternoon.
The Flash holes now need to be Checked and possibly opened and deburred but the Weather outside has been Wet Yesterday and Today so that will have to wait for A warm, dry, Afternoon.
The Two Case types come out 0.920" and 1.205" long respectively after my Process.
Trim Length Depends upon the Firearm intended to discharge them AND the Bullet they Are loaded With.
For .32 Long Colt with a 299153 Outside Lubed Bullet trim to about .740"
For .32 Long Colt with a 311090A inside Heel Lube grove I can get away with a trimmed length of .912" in my Stevens Rifles. The Main difference is that there is only one driving Band and The nose outside the case for the latter Bullet.
Nominal Trim Length for The .32 Colt Extra Long seems to be 1.150" but I presently don't remember What I measured my Rifle chamber at, I will need to get it out and remeasure before Trimming the ".32 CXL" parent cases.
Best Regards,
Chev. William
Jan. 21st: little progress on gun Projects due to 'cold' and 'wet' weather here and installation of a Solar power system on my Home. It is a nominal 5KW peak output system and necessitated upgrade of my Power Service Panel and Power Drop to a 200Amp Service.
Currently waiting for my Power Company to come and install the New Drop from the Pole to my home, which should happen within five business Days.
Best Regards,
Chev. William
PS: "5 business Days" became "3 to 6 weeks" when I called the Contractor again!
Oh well, At least the Installation is making power in the Interim.
Chev. William
Last edited by Chev. William; 02-14-2017 at 03:21 PM.
I am Still waiting for Ruger to Respond to my LGS about the Cylinder and for my Power company to Come by.
Today I got a call form a DWP inspector making an appointment to look at my Solar Installation today between 1000 and 1200.
Chev. William
Still no Response from Ruger about my defective Stainless Steel Single Six Cylinder (22WMR).
I have since acquired Three more SS Cylinders and two Blue Steel Cylinders for this project in both .22WMR and .22LR.
My Gunsmith reported that he is having difficulties reaming the Blued Steel one he has as the Reamer Became Hard to turn part way down the individual chambers at about the same depth in the Process. This may either be a Problem with the reamer or of the Processed Cylinder Materials characteristics. He will be doing some investigation into what is happening as soon as his scheduled work allows.
This is Worrying news to me.
Best Regards,
Chev. William
Last Wednesday, I got my Stainless Steel .32 Long Colt Six shot Cylinder Back from my gunsmith.
This is NOT the One The Shop is trying to get replaced by Ruger.
anyway, "Playing with it since, I have found that it has some "Rough" chambers in it, not all but some with dull rings near the front of the Individual chambers. Also my reformed cases seem tight in the new chambers so I am going to do some measuring to see if it is the Cases too Large or the chambers too Small.
Something to "Putter" on this weekend I am thinking.
Best Regards,
Chev. William
Last edited by Chev. William; 04-18-2017 at 10:19 PM.
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