Battle at the Little Bignorn

[Naphtali]

At Custer's last battle enlisted cavalry soldiers were armed with a rifle and revolver. With how much ammunition for each firearm did each soldier begin the battle?

[Butler Ford]

Not enough!

BF

[NSB]

They had enough. They were issued cartridges made with copper and many of them, if not all of them, had case head separation and had to use a knife to try to get the spent cartridge out of the Trapdoors they were using. Most of the Native Americans were using repeating rifles. In any event, that isn't why they lost the battle.

[Thumbcocker]

I have read that for a long time after the battle the natives would go back and get cartridges from the dead horses or around the field. The troopers did not run out of ammo.

[FISH4BUGS]

It is said that Custer left the Gatling Guns behind because they were too heavy to transport and they would slow him down. I wonder if he had a couple of those it might have made a difference in the outcome.

[Bent Ramrod]

Can't remember exactly what the Docent said at the Little Bighorn Battlefield, but it sticks in my mind that the soldiers had something like 24 rounds of pistol ammunition and 40 of rifle.

As set up, a Cavalry troop had plenty enough to carry with them, and had to have the mobility to fight a sharp skirmish, and then withdraw to resupply. They had enough ammo for that. The country around the Battlefield is full of dips and draws, and the ranging capabilities of the rifles were largely useless as the Indians could get up close and stay under cover while shooting.

The soldiers were allowed something like ten cartridges for practice, which was not a common occurrence. So most of the shots they had were ineffectual.

Most of the last messages Custer sent out were to the effect of "Bring the ammunition wagons here NOW!!"

[Kraschenbirn]

A trooper's normal field issue was 18 rounds for his revolver and 30 rounds for his carbine but, according to accounts of the period, it was normal for extra ammunition to be carried when an engagement was anticipated. Doubt if the Gatlings would've helped Custer and the five companies under his direct command but might've been of some value to Reno and Benteen...if they had an opportunity to deploy them...when they were pinned down at Reno's Hill.

I walked that entire battlefield last fall and don't see how Custer could've made much worse decisions (as a commander) than he did.

Bill

[OS OK]

Custers arrogance and desire to dominate and destroy caught up with him and his estimation of the enemy...besides that was a running fight from where it started a gatling gun would have been one of the first things left in place as the fight morphed around the hills.
Archeologist have done a TV show years back to show how they think it progressed based on cartridge cases and loaded ammo dropped in the fight. It looks like the indians riding up and down those draws kept popping up and causing them grief from every angle.
Old Custer got exactly what he prepared for this time.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

There have been so many histories and commentaries written about the Little Big Horn that there remains little left to say. Custer was long on ego and short on tactics, and like the Indians say, "Custer had it coming."

[NSB]

If Libby Custer hadn't spent the rest of her life trying to make a hero out of her dead husband, the truth about Custer would have come out long ago. He was a very poor leader, tactician, and fighter. He lead his men into a disaster to bolster his own esteem. He simply faced the consequences of his decisions and unfortunately took a lot of good men with him. With the truth out, he was no hero.

[KCSO]

The problem with the ammo wasn't the cartridge case it was how they were carried. The official box was a 20 round box and the troopers wanted more so a lot of them used home made belts with 40 or more rounds, but the belts caused verdigris to form on the cases and the corrosion was what caused them to stick. This led to the Mills and other canvas praire belts.

[Thumbcocker]

While Custer was never short on personal courage; his tactics sucked.

[ole 5 hole group]

http://smith-wessonforum.com/lounge/...ast-stand.html

[M-Tecs]

http://smith-wessonforum.com/lounge/...ast-stand.html

Nice link. Thanks

[9w1911]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comanche_(horse)

My relative Captain Myles Keogh and his horse.

[waksupi]

I seem to recall hearing Custer graduated at the bottom of his class from West Point.

[country gent]

One thing that may never be known is what Custer and his officers were seeeing and teir thoughts at that time. Hindsight is always 20/20. THe indians mass attak and other things at the moment greatly influenced decissions being made.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

The Crow scouts warned Custer not to go down and engage such a large number of the enemy but of course Custer didn't listen and the Crow scouts began to sing their death song. Custer really thought the Indians would flee. I Wish someone could have lived to tell what Custer's last words were.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Gatlings of the period were of very limited use unless you had a fairly substantial target in the direction the gun was pointing. As to Custer encumbering himself with them, it would have meant his being somewhere else, which would have been an improvement. Even if they had made it to the battlefield, I think they would have stayed wherever they were when Custer first realised he was in trouble and turned away from the Indian village.

The extraction problem with the Springfield of the time was known and considered acceptable by the Army. An analysis of cartridge cases found on the battlefield show that only a small minority had the marks produced by trying to clear a jam. We can't know how many jammed Springfields were taken away by Indians who cleared the jam elsewhere. But it seems unlikely that this problem contributed significantly to the defeat or that the Indians had enough repeating rifles to do so.

It is an oversimplification to say Custer was an incompetent. His miserable academic and disciplinary record at West Point is a matter of record, and without the Civil War he might have failed to graduate, or been appointed to some obscure posting he was meant to retire from. It shouldn't have taken much West Point to know that you don't split your force unless you have reliable information on the enemy's strength and location. Instead he chose to ignore intelligence which was actually good.

But he had an extremely good Civil War record, and it doesn't seem to have been a matter of simply lucking into one situation after another, in which charging everything in sight is the right thing to do. Napoleon used to say that battles are lost and won in a quarter of an hour, but in a cavalry battle it can be a fraction of a minute. I believe Custer had what the French call coup d'oeuil - power of the eye, to seize on the opportunity offered by a momentary and complex situation. The trouble is that he wasn't so good at seeing when there wasn't any.

[RED BEAR]

i am by no means a military tactician but to attack a village the size of the one at the little big horn with 250 men 20/20 hindsight or not seems stupid to say the least.