Has Anyone Heard About Arsonal Molds ??

[Jhess]

As I understand it, Arsenal was originally a sub-contractor for Al Nelson, who runs NOE. They got a big order from some other business and cut him off, so he went into business for himself, buying expensive CDC Machines and doing his own work. When they finished the big project, Arsenal found they had some left over molds and began marketing them under the Arsenal name, in competition with Al. Now they are making new molds from his designs. By all reports, Arsenal molds are first quality aluminum molds. I am a happy NOE customer and have not purchased any Arsenal products, because Al has done right by me for years and I want to see him prosper.

Jared from Arsenal Molds here--
I came across this thread and thought I would respond--
Yes we use to work with Al from NOE. We helped him design his Mold blocks and built his product for years. I have his original designs and we did not steal anything from him. The blocks he uses today and the ones we use are not his original designs that he brought to us. He ran into problems with his designs and we spent our time and used our machinery to create a new mold block system. He never paid us for the work and countless hours in R&D.. and we even came up with his Logo on the blocks -- at no expense to him.
You write that we got a “big order from some other business and cut him off” and then when it was done “found they had some left-over molds and began marketing them under the Arsenal name” This couldn’t be further from the truth. There were mutual frustrations with the relationship and before the relationship ended Al had purchased machines taken the work in-house. We were left with over $10,000 worth of molds on our shelf that NOE requested to be built but never paid for them due to “diverted resources” while growing his current enterprise. For 2 years and before there was ever a thought of Arsenal Molds, we tried working with NOE to purchase the molds. When he finally stopped responding we needed to look at our options in recouping the money.
I like Al from NOE. I have always felt like he was a pretty straight shooter and that is why I have tried to stay above the fray when members post things about that situation…. But continued misinformed posts such as this encouraged me to respond. I know this may not change the opinions of any of the NOE faithful, as it shouldn’t because NOE makes a great product. As does Arsenal Molds.

Thanks for reading

[Butchman205]

Jared from Arsenal Molds here--
I came across this thread and thought I would respond--
Yes we use to work with Al from NOE. We helped him design his Mold blocks and built his product for years. I have his original designs and we did not steal anything from him. The blocks he uses today and the ones we use are not his original designs that he brought to us. He ran into problems with his designs and we spent our time and used our machinery to create a new mold block system. He never paid us for the work and countless hours in R&D.. and we even came up with his Logo on the blocks -- at no expense to him.
You write that we got a “big order from some other business and cut him off” and then when it was done “found they had some left-over molds and began marketing them under the Arsenal name” This couldn’t be further from the truth. There were mutual frustrations with the relationship and before the relationship ended Al had purchased machines taken the work in-house. We were left with over $10,000 worth of molds on our shelf that NOE requested to be built but never paid for them due to “diverted resources” while growing his current enterprise. For 2 years and before there was ever a thought of Arsenal Molds, we tried working with NOE to purchase the molds. When he finally stopped responding we needed to look at our options in recouping the money.
I like Al from NOE. I have always felt like he was a pretty straight shooter and that is why I have tried to stay above the fray when members post things about that situation…. But continued misinformed posts such as this encouraged me to respond. I know this may not change the opinions of any of the NOE faithful, as it shouldn’t because NOE makes a great product. As does Arsenal Molds.

Thanks for reading

Now that's a stand up response from a good businessman.
Thanks for your input, and thanks for making moulds that we can use for our hobby. It sounds like we all owe you a debt of gratitude. If y'all hadn't gotten together in the first place, all of the mould advancements we enjoy would not have happened.

-Butch


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[simo99]

Jared's service and his products are second to none. I have 2 of his molds and they are outstanding.

[rintinglen]

I apologize for the mis-information, the story I heard was the one I reported, but I was not privy to the actual facts. Please accept my apology. There seems to be more sides to the story than I was aware of.

[Gofaaast]

And now we know .....the rest of the story

[toallmy]

I have a Arsenal mold , and find the quality outstanding , when I had questions Jhess got back to me and was very helpful . I have never had the pleasure of using a NOE mold , but someday I will . It is nice to have all this craftsmanship available to the masses .

[Screwbolts]

Hello All, I have many molds with the Arsenal name on them, I also have many molds with the NOE name on them. I will continue to support both of these fine companies as need arises for a different mold.

I have totally stopped purchasing any steel molds after all the great experiences with Aluminum molds from either company. I suggest giving them a go.

I am looking forward to harvesting deer this fall with a Boolit from one of Arsenal's 5 cavity molds, a 30 HVTH1 170 Grain LFN Bullet.
Ken

[SwedeNelson]

I came across this thread and thought I would respond--
Yes we use to work with Al from NOE. We helped him design his Mold blocks and built his product for years. I have his original designs and we did not steal anything from him. The blocks he uses today and the ones we use are not his original designs that he brought to us. He ran into problems with his designs and we spent our time and used our machinery to create a new mold block system. He never paid us for the work and countless hours in R&D.. --- This point was discussed two or three times and I was assured by both you and Ken that you had it covered and I took it as you had money built in to the cost of the blocks. Was more than willing to cover your cost.
and we even came up with his Logo on the blocks -- at no expense to him. --- I furnished you a AutoCAD file with our logo and gave you free license to make it work with your machines even asked you two or three time what I owed you. More than willing to cover your cost.
There were mutual frustrations with the relationship and before the relationship ended Al had purchased machines taken the work in-house. --- Frustrations yes but didn’t even consider not working with you until I got a phone call from Ken saying that his son had just “taken out the spindle” on the mill and he could no longer furnish me moulds. At the time I was trying to run down your inventory and had hoped we could regroup and come up with something do-able for both of us.
The group buy you had going at the time fell apart and you left me holding the bag.
We were left with over $10,000 worth of molds on our shelf that NOE requested to be built but never paid for them due to “diverted resources” while growing his current enterprise. For 2 years and before there was ever a thought of Arsenal Molds, we tried working with NOE to purchase the molds. --- With the fact that Ken shut me down and your moulds were out of spec. (as much as .005” out of square and chronic pin to bushing problems) Which I called to your attention three separate times and you would never fix or change. I couldn’t buy any from you to just scrap.
…. But continued misinformed posts such as this encouraged me to respond. --- I agree wholeheartedly “continued misinformed posts such as this”
In retrospect I guess you can say two mould makers came out of all this and that’s got to be good for the customers!

Bullet maker, maker
Swede Nelson

[Jhess]

Well Swede- Not that it will make much of a difference for the casual reader but you can hang on to your fading recollections of conversations and I will hang on to email messages from you that tell a different story. I am done with airing dirty laundry--

[Dimner]

Bullet maker, maker
Swede Nelson

All I know is that Swede's signature always cracks me up. Very clever!

[tomme boy]

NOE and Accurate are the only ones I buy from anymore. Why? They are done right the first time everytime.

Thanks Al, Thanks Tom

[Smk SHoe]

Arsenal may make good molds and most people may be happy with them. I don't know the back history or really care about it. Al has done good by me for the couple molds I have of his and see no reason to change.

[Tailhunter]

Al has always been a straight shooter. Has always helped me out and has produced many a fine mould for me.
Great product, great service why go anywhere else?

[Smk SHoe]

Well here it is a couple months later and things have changed a little. Have never had a problem with Al and all NOE molds I have are great. Just got two Arsenal molds in the mail and they look good to. Will know how they cast in the morning. I have spent to much time looking at NOE website and seeing "0" quantity in stock ( not just a specific set up, but rather 3 cavity, 4 cavity, 5 cavity, Gas check, Plain base) Also, what good is a holiday sale at 20% off if nothing is in stock. Not knowing how long before something will even be in stock is unacceptable to me. I will not wait three or four months HOPING one will be in stock. Arsenal told me it would be awhile for my order to be done. So I thought, O'boy. Well, awhile to them was two weeks. About a week 1/2 got notification they were in the mail. I think NOE molds are a little cleaner coming out of the box but gotta wait till morning to see if either is a better mold.

[556shooter]

I saw and read this thread and went ahead and had Jared at Arsenal make a custom NLG 40 caliber mold for a bullet design they did not have. I don't know what happened between Arsenal and NOE only they do. Frankly, at the end of the day I really don't care; it reminds me of gossip. To me what is important was the positive comments about Arsenals quality in this thread. I can say Jared was great to work with and kept me in the loop about the mold and delivered what I asked for. This Arsenal mold produces some of the finest bullets I have ever cast. I am a happy customer and I will buy more molds form Arsenal.

[runfiverun]

I think both sides have had their say.
IF Al or Jared have more to say they can contact me. [and we will discuss re-opening it]
I'm locking the thread.