PP with 400 or 600 grit paper?

[oley55]

fer sure that is a teaser title, but this whole PP thing has me thinking. year before last (black Friday) I got a nice looking 1934 octagon receivered Mosin Negant. Well it looked pretty and what I thought was a barrel full of cosmoline was in fact a horribly abused barrel. At any rate after days of barrel cleaning I took her to the range. I got a descent 2.5 inch group for exactly 4 rounds. after four rounds the group opens up nicely to 14". I've repeated this exercise three times with nearly identical results. So right now, when properly oiled it's only good for snagging dust bunnies.

With that barrel so rough I jokingly wonder if I'll even be able to drive a slug down it see what size lapping bullets I will need. But I'm thinking that with PP as an option for matching bullet to bore without buying an expensive custom mold, it may very well be time to drag it out and get started fire lapping. I'm pretty sure I can't make it any worse.

just thinking out loud..........

[303Guy]

I would tend to agree. I have this Lee Enfield that had a layer of rust scale the entire length of the bore! After cleaning out the scale and fire-lapping it the bore now looks like a well used sewer pipe. But a paper patched boolit will pass through it without shredding and it will actually hit a target. I have some great accuracy with it too. I did find that pushing velocity right up there didn't produce the best accuracy with the soft boolit cores I was using. I'm talking of a 194 gr boolit doing 2000 fps from a 14 and a it inch barrel (all that I could salvage from it.

I have wondered about paper patching with sand paper. The problem I see is seating it in a case neck. I have had a fire-lap boolit (paper patched) gripping the neck, tearing it off and taking it with down the bore! I still have that somewhere.

[barrabruce]

Breach seat the bullet.

Sand paper would be hard to wrap.
Maybe a grinding paste impregnated patch.

No liability for making it a shot gun barrel thou.

[longbow]

I tend to agree with barrabruce... except I am pretty sure you are joking about the sand paper. In any case, valve lapping compound impregnated into the paper patch or using large GG boolits "lubed" with lapping compound might well clean out the bore and make it usable.

If that doesn't work you could possibly get it re-bored to .35 cal and make a wildcat... or as barrabruce says "No liability for making it a shot gun barrel thou."

Longbow

[725]

If it's broke, fire lapping is one answer. Had a buddy's brand new Sendero (.308 Remington) that wouldn't hit a pie plate at 100 yards. Fire lapped it and now it's a tack driver.

[country gent]

The problem with sand paper or even reqular paper for patchings is going to be that they wont conform to square corners as well as a lapp ( or a fire lapping bullet) forming to the corners and shape as crisply as they should. Causing corners to be rounded. A lead bullet loaded with polishing compound would do much better maintaining riflings form. To load the bullet, use 2 flat smooth steel plates. coat one with the lapping compound and roll several bullets between the 2 plates pressing firmly, this impregnates the surfaces of the bullet with compound loading it for use.

[oley55]

fer sure that is a teaser title, but this whole PP thing has me thinking.

folks I never considered patching with sand paper as an option. I apologize for the misleading subject line.

[docone31]

What I did, was to take the paper patched load, sized to fit, then lightly rubbed Clover on the patch. I wiped off the rest. It left a thin coating. The patches do polish the bore, but, the Clover did a fast job. I fired 5 rds that way, using start load data and then the rest of the rounds got closer and closer to zero. It really worked. Paper patching polishes the bore well also, it is just slow. In no time, I had confetti and very accurate rifles.

[Cmasailor]

Clover? comes in many grits doesn't it?

[oley55]

Clover 320 grit is the one recommended by Marshall Stanton of Bear Tooth Bullets for almost all fire lapping. very limited use of Clover 280 grit may be used in some limited situations (thread choked Ruger SS revolvers).

[johnson1942]

why not double wrap with twenty pound computer paper on a bullet sized so that when you wrap it comes out the way you want. with the water, mix a little water soluble elmers glue so when wrapped it forms a very good strong paper jacket. when dry coat the bullet lightly with some elmers paper glue and dust with a dry polishing powder and let dry again. shoot these untill your bore is where you want it. then wrap as you always would.

[Hardcast416taylor]

If you can`t get any where using 320 grit clover valve grinding compound by shooting 10 or less rounds, then you may have a candidate for a neat looking floor lamp.Robert

[bigted]

Or make the 350 mosin

[Lead pot]

If that barrel is junk like you say you might try this. I have brought some junk barrels back to life. This is not what I would do to a barrel that needs a little help. Fire lapping is a short cut I would not take.

Knurl a couple bullets and start with one using 200 clover lapping compound. load a black powder load and fire it. Clean the bore and shoot another round. It is important to clean the bore and apply a thin coat of oil between shots so the tin in the lead bullet does not solder to the bare dry bore. It's the tin that does most of the smears the lead gets blamed for.
The draw back with fire lapping it erodes the throat more then the bore.
When you knurl the bullet it will increase the diameter of it. You can increase it as much as .013" depending how aggressive the knurl is. If I want a tighter fitting PP bullet and I don't want to use thicker paper which has a bad effect on accuracy at times I knurl it to the diameter I want.

But I start with a GG bullet for two shots with a junk barrel. The GG will carry more compound to the end of the barrel better then one covered smooth sided shank will. Then I will follow up with 400 grid to polish on a knurled PP bullet. The knurls will hold and carry the compound better then a smooth or even a gg with out the knurl.
The knurled GG bullet has some old dried lube on it but it will give you the idea.

[bigted]

Leadpot ... Did you use a couple files to do the knurl or do you use a knurling tool?

[Lead pot]

Ted, I used a knurler on those.

[longbow]

What knurling tool do you have?

I made my own knurler that works pretty well and I have made push out moulds (like the old Ideal cylindrical moulds) that cast undersize then knurl up to size. So far they have worked very well for me. Tumble lubing works great on them. I hot tumble lube by melting some home made lube in a cast iron frying pan (just enough lube in to make a thin film), then add some boolits, roll them around, remove and place onto aluminum foil to cool.

I have not firelapped but I have to say that I think the idea of using a knurled boolit for firelapping is a great idea.

I have hand lapped a couple of barrels and it really wasn't that hard to do and it made good shooters out of mediocre to poor shooters.

350 Mosin sounds good too.

Longbow

[Good Cheer]

Got a rifle that reboring to a larger bore isn't practical due to the cartridge and the model. So, after throwing up my hands months ago I'm going back to paper patches with abrasives to try to avoid a rebarrel or floor lamp options. Was using Clover compound before. The stuff inevitably rubs off inside the rifle. El yucko major.

This morning I concocted the idea of wet 98 cent a bottle nail polish (yeah man, the good stuff!) with abrasive sprinkled on. Let it dry. Over coat with more Wallyworld el cheapo Barney colored stuff to encapsulate the abrasives. Came up with basically the idea as johnson1942 except for trying to keep the abrasive out of the action. So now I got some boolits patched with wood glue solution water. I'm painting the tails for best resistance to gases. I'll load them in old cases, then paint and powder. Which leaves me wondering about powders. Seeing as the muzzle has the most material loss to corrosion (aint that just the way of the world?) the abrasive may as well be aggressive.

Heh, this morning we were out looking over the construction zone on our house addition and the better 2/3's pointed to the sand pile they're using for the mortar. She's probably right.

[bdicki]

I've had good luck with this after Hoppes #9 and copper solvent. Repeat as needed.

[Good Cheer]

It might end up needing a heal type base just so the case neck can have something small enough to hold on to!