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Thread: .22 rimfire alternative

  1. #161
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    Now if we had one of those powder charges we would never have to buy powder again! Wonder how many grains (lol) of powder a 16" gun would load?

    Quote Originally Posted by NavyVet1959 View Post
    I'm not really concerned with that. I figure separating powder charge from projectile was good enough for the 16" guns on the Iowa class battleships, it's good enough for me.

  2. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traffer View Post
    Now if we had one of those powder charges we would never have to buy powder again! Wonder how many grains (lol) of powder a 16" gun would load?
    According to the wiki page:

    The D839 propellant (smokeless powder) grain used for full charges issued for this gun was 2 inches long (5.08 cm), 1 inch in diameter (2.54 cm) and had seven perforations, each 0.060 inches in diameter (0.152 cm) with a web thickness range of 0.193 to 0.197 inches (0.490 to 0.500 cm) between the perforations and the grain diameter. A maximum charge consists of six silk bags–hence the term bag gun–each filled with 110 pounds of propellant.
    So, the powder could vary depending upon the distance needed and the weight of the projectile being used. With the full 660 lb powder load, you would be looking at 4,620,000 grains (weight).

    Now, the *physical* powder grain obviously weighed more than a single (unit of weight) grain.

  3. #163
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    Don't forget the five pound Black Powder Booster attached to the breech end of each Bag of Powder for the 16" Guns. That makes the Total Charge 690 Pounds. Then there is the "Primer and Initiator Charge" Weights to add also.

    All in All a 'Mighty Big Bang' of a Charge. And there were Three guns in each turret.

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  4. #164
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    That's more powder than I use in a WEEK. hah hah
    Quote Originally Posted by Chev. William View Post
    Don't forget the five pound Black Powder Booster attached to the breech end of each Bag of Powder for the 16" Guns. That makes the Total Charge 690 Pounds. Then there is the "Primer and Initiator Charge" Weights to add also.

    All in All a 'Mighty Big Bang' of a Charge. And there were Three guns in each turret.

    Best Regards,
    Chev. William

  5. #165
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    If I could fit the grains of powder from the 16" guns of the Battle ship. I could load 2 million 70 thousand rounds of 22lr with one charge of a 16" gun. That put's things in perspective. huh?

  6. #166
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    I wonder if you can get milsurp bags o' powder from the battle ships? Um, I would like to order one 110 lb bag of powder please.

  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traffer View Post
    I wonder if you can get milsurp bags o' powder from the battle ships? Um, I would like to order one 110 lb bag of powder please.
    I wouldn't mind having a couple of the physical grains of that power just to put on display. That's some pretty big grains.

    Grinding those grains down to a size that would be usable in any firearms that I have though might end up being an exercise in blowing up kitchen blenders.

  8. #168
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    Physical powder grains are called granules.

  9. #169
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    Then it might go like this "I would like to purchase one granule of 16" battle ship gun powder. I need to load a couple hundred 22lr cartridges."

  10. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traffer View Post
    Then it might go like this "I would like to purchase one granule of 16" battle ship gun powder. I need to load a couple hundred 22lr cartridges."
    I'm thinking "granule" just sounds too small when you're talking about that type of powder. Maybe "pellets" would be a better term...

  11. #171
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    Perhaps one of these:
    block
    noun. mass of material
















    Quote Originally Posted by NavyVet1959 View Post
    I'm thinking "granule" just sounds too small when you're talking about that type of powder. Maybe "pellets" would be a better term...

  12. #172
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    Dad's Blue Jackets Manual described an unusual shell for the 16 inch guns. It was from other sources I found a 4,500 pound hull buster, intended for shelling convoys of merchant ships. The concussion of the blast wherever it hit in the water was enough to cave in the thinner hulls of freighters at quite some distance. It could sink two or more ships if they were not too far apart.
    Probably also good for sinking destroyers and torpedo boats too fast and maneuverable for making direct hits likely.
    Range was about half that of the standard 16 inch shells.

    I don't know if these were even still in inventory during WW2. I don't remember reading of any being used in that war.

  13. #173
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    Wait... So you bought your last brick of 22lr 15 years ago, and have gone through all of this to find a way to save 14-18 bucks a brick??? It is called inflation, as well as supply and demand. Last I checked, it is still the cheapest ammo to buy (per round) at wally. I'm just curious how you expect to remove the crimp, resize the case, and seat/crimp the projectile (another expensive custom mold) you've cast.

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  14. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirAIG View Post
    Wait... So you bought your last brick of 22lr 15 years ago, and have gone through all of this to find a way to save 14-18 bucks a brick??? It is called inflation, as well as supply and demand. Last I checked, it is still the cheapest ammo to buy (per round) at wally. I'm just curious how you expect to remove the crimp, resize the case, and seat/crimp the projectile (another expensive custom mold) you've cast.
    Don't think it was 15 years ago... Probably 8 years ago... At least that seems about right on how long it's been since I've seen .22LR bricks so readily available that the stores were running ads with sales on them. And it wasn't just about saving money, it was about finding an alternative that might be available during times when .22LR ammo was not to be found. When .22LR ammo is more expensive than I can reload .38 and 9mm, then I don't shoot any of my .22LR firearms.

    Actually, I don't expect to remove the crimp, resize the case, or seat and crimp the projectile. I'm experimenting with an alternative solution where the bullet and powder charge is loaded into the chamber separately. I also don't plan on using any other mold than the 55gr one that I already have. My testing so far with the .22 power loads (#1 and #2 power levels) has been good in a .22LR bolt action rifle. And the NAA mini-revolver works well with the #1 loads. With the #2 loads that I have, the rim is a bit thick and the cylinder will not rotate.

  15. #175
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    Bolus is a good word. A pill for sick cows. They are thumb size.

  16. #176
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    Trivia:
    I believe "Cake" was the Term used when Black Powder was Made in Wet processing, with Water, to prevent it exploding while be mixed in a Mill/Grinder. The Final material was still wet when removed from the Mill/Grinder and was rolled out in Thin 'cake' on drying sheets and left alone until most Water had Drained/Evaporated off. at which time it was CAREFULLY Broken up and sieved to separate into various sizing groups/Batches for packaging into storage/shipping containers.
    Also in 'wet condition' it could be formed in to sized, premeasured 'charge' 'grains' or 'shapes', for somewhat easier handling later.
    Additionally, when mixed with additional Chemicals (Binders and Colorants) it is formed wet into shapes to be used as 'Stars' in fireworks.
    From My Memory,
    Best Regards,
    Chev. William

  17. #177
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    The 22mag is where the savings can be considerable. Also, if the 25cal power load will fit the mag chamber, it will be as simple as dropping a boolit in the chamber followed by a power load. Pretty simple in a Contender and for a per round cost of about 1 cent rather than 25-30 cents for factory loads. And, you can use different weight boolits. Sounds like a win to me.

  18. #178
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    I like bolus. Yup, good word. "Ill take one bolus of 16" Naval Gun Powder Please. Don't bother wrapping it I'll eat it here"
    I think we have a winner here folks. In my mind from this time on a "granule" of 16" Naval gun powder will be known as a "Bolus" of propellant.
    Thank you Texas by God.

    Quote Originally Posted by Texas by God View Post
    Bolus is a good word. A pill for sick cows. They are thumb size.

  19. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbuck351 View Post
    The 22mag is where the savings can be considerable. Also, if the 25cal power load will fit the mag chamber, it will be as simple as dropping a boolit in the chamber followed by a power load. Pretty simple in a Contender and for a per round cost of about 1 cent rather than 25-30 cents for factory loads. And, you can use different weight boolits. Sounds like a win to me.
    That is the way I see it as well.

    I can reload 9mm and .38's inexpensively but the brass still needs to be salvaged, tumbled, and put through the Dillon. For a single shot rifle/pistol, loading a separate bullet and power load is not too inconvenient. And less than $.02 a shot is hard to beat.
    Don Verna


  20. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbuck351 View Post
    The 22mag is where the savings can be considerable. Also, if the 25cal power load will fit the mag chamber, it will be as simple as dropping a boolit in the chamber followed by a power load. Pretty simple in a Contender and for a per round cost of about 1 cent rather than 25-30 cents for factory loads. And, you can use different weight boolits. Sounds like a win to me.
    Well, the UPS guy just delivered the package... I didn't hear him ring the door bell, but it was left at the front door. Both 5K packages (brown and black color codes) were packaged in another box that was exactly the size of the two boxes. No additional packing materials whatsoever.

    The brand of the power loads is "Omark" -- Brown is S3 Part #40171 and Black is S4 #40172. I believe that they were made by CCI. They have the "C" on the base of the power load and my research seems to indicate that CCI made the loads for Omark.

    I'm curious though on what the power levels might actually be. According to the color charts that I've seen, brown should be a #2 load. Looking on the back of the .25 caliber power load box, it shows a circle with numbers from 1 to 12 (starting at 1 in the 7 o'clock position and ended with 12 in the 5 o'clock position. It has a large "3" in the middle and an arrow pointing to the smaller 3 that is on the edge of the circle. I interpret this to mean that it is a #3 load, but the brown color is supposed to be a #2 load.

    I'll disassemble one of each and weigh the powders and post the powder weights, dimensions, and a photo them in a later post.

    Searched around and found the NAA .22 mag cylinder to see if it would fit. My wife is off doing her stuff and I think she has the NAA with the .22LR cylinder with her so I won't be able to test fire it yet.

    The .25 power loads fit in the .22 mag cylinder. They fit snugly though, no wobble in them at all once inserted. They are a close enough fit that once you put the power load in the cylinder, they will not drop out if you turn the cylinder upside down. They can still be removed with a small dowel pressed in from the front end of the cylinder with only slight pressure. The rim of the power load fits the cutout for the rim in the .22 mag cylinder very well. I would say that the power loads fit the cylinder well enough that you could carry a spare cylinder in your pocket for a way to "quickly" reload the NAA mini-revolver if you so desired without having to be concerned that the loads would fall out of the cylinder.

    So far, I'm satisfied and believe it was a worthwhile gamble to buy 10K of these.
    Last edited by NavyVet1959; 03-23-2017 at 01:25 AM.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check