.22 rimfire alternative

[psweigle]

My son and I have been doing this very thing in an old Stevens favorite with 22 pellets and powerloads for a while now. It is actually pretty darn accurate and a lot of fun. We put the pellet on with a cleaning rod and then put the powerloads behind it. Tape on a cleaning rod assures properly seated pellet. Never bothered to chrony it though.

[NavyVet1959]

I tried more of the bullets that I had previously cast (either 50:50 WW:Pb or straight WW) tonight to see how much I would need to shorten the bullets before they could chamber by just hand pressure. I ended up needing to remove about 0.15" from the base of the bullet to get it to chamber. This ended up removing over 5 gr of weight from the bullet. Another option that I tried was chucking the bullet in my drill press and tapering the front a bit. I didn't have great luck with that until I tried just putting the file flat against the bullet and removing the front driving band. That actually would allow it to chamber, but you could see where the rifling was touching the bullet as it was seated.

I tried casting some pure lead bullets (air-cooled) and gave them a try. There was a bit of resistance, but it was possible to close the bolt with just hand pressure on the bolt. Seating a bullet this way and then removing it showed rifling pretty much the entire length of the bullet.

Another thing I tried tonight was to load a normal copper jacketed bullet bullet that was originally for a .223 / 5.56 and try to fire it. I tried it with the #1 load and it would not exit the barrel. I tried an additional #1 load, still stuck. I then tried two #2 loads, but it was still stuck. It was stuck about halfway down the barrel. Interestingly, when firing the #1 and #2 loads, it was VERY quiet. I actually thought that the primer had not even fired. I could hear the gases slowly exhausting though and when I pulled back on the bolt, a bit more gas escaped. When I used a rod to knock the bullet back out the breech, I could see all the micro grooves from the rifling.

[Chev. William]

I tried pushing the bullets with one of the .22 power loads and even with more force than I really wanted to put on the bolt, it wouldn't seat deep enough for the bolt to close. The 55gr Lee Bator bullets that I'm using are cast from either straight wheelweight or at 50:50 mix of WW and pure lead and are water dropped. They are powdercoated and sized to 0.225". Maybe a softer alloy would allow me to seat them with just the force of my hand on the bolt.

From what I understand though, the new Lee C225-55-RF has a longer nose on it, so it's possible that it might seat deeper and allow the power load to push the bullet in without needing any force.

I think I'll try casting some of my Lee .225 Bator bullets tonight with pure lead and see if it will seat.

I was kind of wanting to be able to use my existing stock of powdercoated harder bullets though since they could handle more velocity if needed.

Another option might be to get a 0.225" reamer and extend the chamber a bit. Maybe something like one of these:

http://www.victornet.com/subdepartme...imal/1784.html

Using a 'chucking Reamer' of Straight design would leave a Sharp face to the Lands in your barrel, which would cut chunks out of the bullet rather than squeezing it down into the bullet via the tapered throat. This would leave Lead 'chunks' in your bore in front of the next bullet to be inserted and fired.

Chev. William

[NavyVet1959]

Using a 'chucking Reamer' of Straight design would leave a Sharp face to the Lands in your barrel, which would cut chunks out of the bullet rather than squeezing it down into the bullet via the tapered throat. This would leave Lead 'chunks' in your bore in front of the next bullet to be inserted and fired.

I wonder if the end of the chucking reamer could be tapered a bit by putting it in a drill press and sliding a whet stone along it at a slight angle while it rotated. Assuming that the steel that they use is too hard for using a file...

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I tried more of the bullets that I had previously cast (either 50:50 WW:Pb or straight WW) tonight to see how much I would need to shorten the bullets before they could chamber by just hand pressure. I ended up needing to remove about 0.15" from the base of the bullet to get it to chamber. This ended up removing over 5 gr of weight from the bullet. Another option that I tried was chucking the bullet in my drill press and tapering the front a bit. I didn't have great luck with that until I tried just putting the file flat against the bullet and removing the front driving band. That actually would allow it to chamber, but you could see where the rifling was touching the bullet as it was seated.

I tried casting some pure lead bullets (air-cooled) and gave them a try. There was a bit of resistance, but it was possible to close the bolt with just hand pressure on the bolt. Seating a bullet this way and then removing it showed rifling pretty much the entire length of the bullet.

Another thing I tried tonight was to load a normal copper jacketed bullet bullet that was originally for a .223 / 5.56 and try to fire it. I tried it with the #1 load and it would not exit the barrel. I tried an additional #1 load, still stuck. I then tried two #2 loads, but it was still stuck. It was stuck about halfway down the barrel. Interestingly, when firing the #1 and #2 loads, it was VERY quiet. I actually thought that the primer had not even fired. I could hear the gases slowly exhausting though and when I pulled back on the bolt, a bit more gas escaped. When I used a rod to knock the bullet back out the breech, I could see all the micro grooves from the rifling.

A firearm is just the simplest kind of heat engine, like your car or a steam engine, except that you use the piston only once and don't need a crank. General Hatcher actually experimented with a fully plugged .30-06, from a safe distance, and found it held together. He left it for some time before knocking up the bolt handle. I don't remember whether he felt the outside immediately after firing, but I should think it was remarkably hot for a single shot. It opened with no more than a sharp pop, revealing a dirty, partly liquid residue. When the heat is dissipated, the energy is gone with it.

[Chev. William]

Yes, that would work slowly but it would leave the Reamer "dull" in that the stoned tapered section would not cut cleanly, leaving poor finish to the surface it 'cut'.

If you examine a reamer carefully you will find the "Cutting Edges" are very Carefully shaped to present a smooth Sharp edge without the area 'behind' the edge Dragging on the cut Surface.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[NavyVet1959]

Yes, that would work slowly but it would leave the Reamer "dull" in that the stoned tapered section would not cut cleanly, leaving poor finish to the surface it 'cut'.

If you examine a reamer carefully you will find the "Cutting Edges" are very Carefully shaped to present a smooth Sharp edge without the area 'behind' the edge Dragging on the cut Surface.

I think that another issue that I would have would be that the reamer is not long enough to reach the chamber if I go in through the receiver with the bolt removed. That means I would need to remove the barrel and I would prefer to not have to do that.

[NavyVet1959]

Decided to try an experiment with a muzzle loaded "shot shell" today using the .22 power load. I loaded the power load first. I then took a small chunk of paper towel and rammed it down the barrel as a sort of wad to separate the powder from the pellets. I then dropped two small dippers of shot down the barrel. I had previously measured it to be 50 gr of pellets. I then took another piece of paper towel and rammed it down the barrel over the top of the pellets so that if I tilted the barrel, the pellets wouldn't just roll out.

From about 10 ft away, the pattern was probably about 6" in diameter. As far as I could tell, all of the pellets ended up hitting the piece of 8.5"x11" 20-lb paper that I was using as a target. I could see this possibly being useful for close in shots on pests.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I think that another issue that I would have would be that the reamer is not long enough to reach the chamber if I go in through the receiver with the bolt removed. That means I would need to remove the barrel and I would prefer to not have to do that.

The reamer makers generally sell extensions, but they are expensive for occasional use. I've used an ordinary socket wrench extension a centrefire reamer, but I don't know if rimfire ones have a square, a flat or what. You could temporarily epoxy it into a metal tube. With bottlenecked cases it should be fairly thick walled, or torsional vibration might cause chatter. But that is unlikely with a rimfire.

[NavyVet1959]

Saw a listing on a site the other day for a rolling block in a .25 Stevens Rimfire. Given the experiments with the .22 power loads, I'm curious if the .25 power loads would fit in that rifle.

I think he's wrong about it being a rolling block though. It looks more like a falling block rifle.

EDITED:
Interestingly, it looks like the .27 power loads would be a better fit for that chamber...

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...or-Steven-s-SS

[fiberoptik]

Decided to try an experiment with a muzzle loaded "shot shell" today using the .22 power load. I loaded the power load first. I then took a small chunk of paper towel and rammed it down the barrel as a sort of wad to separate the powder from the pellets. I then dropped two small dippers of shot down the barrel. I had previously measured it to be 50 gr of pellets. I then took another piece of paper towel and rammed it down the barrel over the top of the pellets so that if I tilted the barrel, the pellets wouldn't just roll out.

From about 10 ft away, the pattern was probably about 6" in diameter. As far as I could tell, all of the pellets ended up hitting the piece of 8.5"x11" 20-lb paper that I was using as a target. I could see this possibly being useful for close in shots on pests.

Back on the farm we used .22 lr shot loads in the barn for rats up close, especially in the cow feed were they liked to tunnel. Left no damage. I believe gramps .22 was a smoothbore. It was an old single shot.


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[snowtigger]

You guys might try contacting Bullshop. When he was in Alaska I was in his shop. He showed me a Ruger 22 pistol that had been converted to 22 Cooper. It used a Cooper case with a 22 cast bullet. I don't remember the primer or the powder load, but he said at that time (before Obama) it was cheaper to load than 22 rimfire. If I remember right the cases were expensive, but should last a lifetime.

[Chev. William]

I think that another issue that I would have would be that the reamer is not long enough to reach the chamber if I go in through the receiver with the bolt removed. That means I would need to remove the barrel and I would prefer to not have to do that.

There are Chamber Reamers designed to be PULLED using a rod down through the Bore instead of PUSHED from Behind.
I have a Used one for .30 Carbine I bought on Ebay a couple of years ago. It currently is at my gunsmith's shop to chamber a New LONG Rifle barrel for a M1 Carbine Receiver.
Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Traffer]

I have been loading 22lr for over a year. I use the same 55 grain bullet BUT I CUT IT DOWN TO 40 GRAINS. Also, you never need lead harder than 7 or 8bhn. If I were you I would not water drop. You can cut them down using a "tube" that is just bigger in diameter than the bullet with a narrowing bore to hold the bullet. Then using a #2 drill bit spin the drill on the base of the bullet cutting it to the size you want. Here are some pictures of the way I used to do it:

[NavyVet1959]

Well, I finally got around to testing the #1 and #2 power loads with the 55 gr cast (pure lead) bullets today...

With the #1 load, I was getting 959 fps and extraction was possible via the bolt. That works out to be 112 ft-lbs.

With the #2 load, I was getting 1349 fps and extraction was not possible via the bolt (I had to use a rod). That works out to be 222 ft-lbs.

So, the #1 load is looking like 10 ft-lbs more muzzle energy than the CCI Standard Velocity rounds, but a bit less than the "high velocity" or "hyper velocity" offerings.

The #2 load looks to be definitely above any of the .22LR offerings, but not quite in the .22 mag power range.

Now, on a side note... I had installed a Daisy 4x scope from an air gun on the rifle, but I couldn't see to see where the bullets were hitting. They were definitely not hitting the steel plate I was aiming at. Eventually, I just gave up on it and switched to iron sights. I didn't want to be shooting through the chrony with a scope that I was not sure where it was placing bullets. It was getting late and I wanted to test the velocity before the sun went down. Surprisingly, those old iron sights were pretty accurate. At 25 yards, the lead splatters on the steel plate were touching. Not bad considering my old eyes and the fact that I was shooting into the sun.

[Duckdog]

Old West bullet molds sells an outstanding mold for 22 LR in the 40 grain range that is already heeled. I bought one and it is a 3 banger and casts perfect, heeled 22 LR bullets. I also bought one of his shell holders and bullet crimp dies. I made my own sizing die. With this setup, a guy can crank out a quite a few loaded rounds in a relatively short time. I use the old H48 primer mix, so that is very simple, too. All and all, it is a fun thing to mess with.

[smkummer]

richodge66 has hit the nail on the head with a light loaded 22 hornet. I have a Colt/Sako 461 in 223 which is a dandy of a rifle that I am shooting lymans 225415 (50 grain) at about 2200 FPS. So its in-between 22 magnum and 22 hornet. I will try the 3.5 231 load next to see if I can shoot that one in the back yard. I guess I need to start a post on low powered 223. And I will.

Of course that doesn't solve the problem of how to shoot some of our beloved 22 LR rifles for less than 10 cents a round that scalpers are charging. So this is a good thread for those of use that must go this route. I am lucky that I have a friend that works for Cabela's and can occasionally get a deal (normal price on bulk 22 ammo .05 each) when I need.

[Multigunner]

Just had an idea.
Awhile back I experimented with making a .22 LR chamber adapter for my .22 Magnum Ruger Single Six. I simply cut the rim/base off a fired magnum case and loaded the LR round in through the case mouth using the former base of the mag case as the mouth of the adapter.
It worked okay but the fired LR case stuck tight in the adapter making the adapter a single use proposition.

I'm thinking that the No.1 blank probably would not expand enough to stick tight if I used the adapter to hold a .22 pellet.

Since I have no other use for the once fired magnum cases cutting or grinding away the base on a dozen or so cases to keep for use as lower noise short range pest removal loads might be worth the effort. There should be no problem preloading the pellet in the proper position, perhaps securing it with a thick bullet lube or wax. Should work for .22 Magnum rifles as well.

[Traffer]

I was just thinking... the 17 WSM is derived from the 27 caliber nail gun cartridge. Wouldn't it be interesting to make a single shot 27 Caliber rimfire rifle? Shoot maybe a 65 or 70 grain bullet? I would love to see something like that. Or even use the primed case to make 27 cal rimfire rounds and make a 27 caliber rifle for that. That makes my mouth water.

[NavyVet1959]

I was just thinking... the 17 WSM is derived from the 27 caliber nail gun cartridge. Wouldn't it be interesting to make a single shot 27 Caliber rimfire rifle? Shoot maybe a 65 or 70 grain bullet? I would love to see something like that. Or even use the primed case to make 27 cal rimfire rounds and make a 27 caliber rifle for that. That makes my mouth water.

Well, here's a barrel for you...

http://www.gmriflebarrel.com/17-blan...-blank-21-x-1/

Just $45...

Just need to chamber it...

And build the rest of the gun around it...

The thought of casting for .17 makes my eyes and fingers hurt...