.22 rimfire alternative

[Texas by God]

I like bolus. Yup, good word. "Ill take one bolus of 16" Naval Gun Powder Please. Don't bother wrapping it I'll eat it here"
I think we have a winner here folks. In my mind from this time on a "granule" of 16" Naval gun powder will be known as a "Bolus" of propellant.
Thank you Texas by God.

You are welcome. A bolus will teach you where the molars of a bovine are.

[Chev. William]

Thank you very very much. What a great advantage it is to get advise from an expert. I have to restate this to make sure I understand what you are saying: Basically 3/4-20 would meet the strength needs of this project. And the conventional reasoning in tapping and threading says that the same length of threads as the diameter is as strong as it gets. 3/4 the diameter may be strong enough. And turning a groove at the end of the threaded area to the root depth of the thread will give me a square end to tighten up to. In my mind I see the threaded area having the threads matching the die being not quite as deep at the end of the threading as the beginning. and I see this as a good thing causing a very tight fit on the last half turn or so of the tightening. I can also increase the width of the cut root diameter groove to allow me to cinch the receiver to top dead center to get the sight and tap holes on the barrel to be in the right spot. I am going to go with the full diameter of the barrel as the length of the threads. I already priced out the 3/4-20 tap and die on eBay. I can get them both for a total of $18. Please correct any of this that I may have misunderstood. This is exciting. You just took 90% of the uncertainty of this project out for me.

Traffer,
your recapitulation reads like you understand correctly.
Best Regards,
Chev. william

[Chev. William]

When I used the gradually tapered nail in the (non-rotating) drill press to open up the .25 caliber power load, it just opened it a small amount, so it took a few taps to get it all the power into the powder measure tray. I was thinking that if I had wanted to add powder to the power loads for even more power, I would need to make a very small powder funnel and the opened up crimp could be resealed with a small drop of hot melt glue from a glue gun.

I measured one of the .25 caliber power loads and the body of it was 0.242". I searched through my miscellaneous drill bits and came across one that measured 0.246". I think that means it's a size #D. I have no idea where I came across a drill bit in that size. I don't remember ever having a set of drill bits that were *that* extensive in their sizes. The #C drill bit is 0.242", so it would probably be better and then if I needed a bit more space, a bit of 600 grit paper on the chamber walls of whatever I was building.

NavyVet1959,
In my experience twist drills seem to make holes slightly larger than their Measured drill body diameter.
Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Traffer]

Letter drills are available at a good hardware store for not much money. You should be able to get a "C" or "D" size for a couple of bucks each. What I would do is cut the hole smaller (if you are making a new hole) and enlarging it with a hand reamer. I plan to open the bore of a 22rf with reamers to the correct size. I have purchased many reamers in the size range of .195" to .226" and some metric starting at 5mm, I think i have 5.2mm. 5.6mm, and 5.7mm along with the decimal sizes. I think the most I have paid for a reamer is about $5.50 delivered. That is bought on eBay usually from China. It is probably easier to get metric sizes at cheap money because being made in China that is the standard there. I am including a really handy chart that I use all the time for working on making dies for the .22rf that I use. This chart is extremely handy. I must use this at a few times every day.

https://www.imperialsupplies.com/pdf...DrillChart.pdf


QUOTE=NavyVet1959;3997039]When I used the gradually tapered nail in the (non-rotating) drill press to open up the .25 caliber power load, it just opened it a small amount, so it took a few taps to get it all the power into the powder measure tray. I was thinking that if I had wanted to add powder to the power loads for even more power, I would need to make a very small powder funnel and the opened up crimp could be resealed with a small drop of hot melt glue from a glue gun.

I measured one of the .25 caliber power loads and the body of it was 0.242". I searched through my miscellaneous drill bits and came across one that measured 0.246". I think that means it's a size #D. I have no idea where I came across a drill bit in that size. I don't remember ever having a set of drill bits that were *that* extensive in their sizes. The #C drill bit is 0.242", so it would probably be better and then if I needed a bit more space, a bit of 600 grit paper on the chamber walls of whatever I was building.[/QUOTE]

[Traffer]

I opened up one of these so far. I drilled a 3/32 hole in the tip to start and inserted a pic to open it up. That worked pretty well. I have figured a way to attach a bullet to these things, I think. I am going to drill a hole in the tip as big as I can and still maintain the integral strength of the crimped area. Then I am going to fashion a die to swage bullets that have a shaft or tail on them that is slightly larger than the hole and stuff them in. They should hold good enough to be a one piece round. I love doing stuff like this. lol.

[NavyVet1959]

I opened up one of these so far. I drilled a 3/32 hole in the tip to start and inserted a pic to open it up. That worked pretty well. I have figured a way to attach a bullet to these things, I think. I am going to drill a hole in the tip as big as I can and still maintain the integral strength of the crimped area. Then I am going to fashion a die to swage bullets that have a shaft or tail on them that is slightly larger than the hole and stuff them in. They should hold good enough to be a one piece round. I love doing stuff like this. lol.

I think you could open them up to 3/32" easy enough without drilling and thereby adding brass chips to your powder. Just taper a 1/8" diameter nail very gradually and push it down into the center of the crimped area with a drill press. You might need to make two of them and on one of them have the starting diameter a little greater. Of course, set the stop on the drill press so that you don't end up hitting bottom on the brass with the point of the tool.

If we're talking single shot guns, I don't really see the advantage of reloading .22LR with the bullets attached to the power loads vs just loading them separately when you are shooting them. If you factor in the time it takes to create the rounds at home, then just having the separate and putting them together right as you are shooting them probably takes less time.

[Multigunner]

Why not just glue a hollow base bullet to the crimped area?
A air rifle pellet could be mounted this way ( .22 and .25 anyway), but I'm sure most want something more substantial when using the higher powered blanks.

[rbuck351]

I got a chance to play with some of the #4 power loads today for a bit. I haven't been able to get accuracy from my Ruger single six. I have a 22mag and a 256win barrel for my contender. Just dropping a bullet in the chamber followed by a power load doesn't give me very good accuracy. I made a wooden dowel with a stop, to push a bullet into the rifling a bit. This shows quite good accuracy at the 25feet or so that I was testing. The chamber insert I made for the 256Win pushes a boolit slightly into the rifling as well and fits against the base of the boolit when ready to fire. This shoots quite well also. I tried tipping the barrel up with the 22mag to get the boolit to sit against the power load when fired but accuracy was poor. Also, some of the loads had a weak report when not seated into the rifling. I think this is going to be necessary to get accuracy. So far breach seating the boolit into the rifling a bit has given consistant and fairly good accuracy.

[NavyVet1959]

Why not just glue a hollow base bullet to the crimped area?
A air rifle pellet could be mounted this way ( .22 and .25 anyway), but I'm sure most want something more substantial when using the higher powered blanks.

With anything other than the lightest power loads, you would end up with the skirt separating from the head of the bullet.

[rbuck351]

Yep I tried the 22cal pellets in front of a small pistol primer and had some leave the skirt right where it started.

[rbuck351]

I just checked vel on the #4 Black power loads behind a 70gr 25cal cast boolit in a 14" TC barrel and got the following:
948
965
967
962
965
average of 961 I quite happy with the results and for a cost of less than 1 cent per shot, I'll be using this a lot more than 22lr.

[Traffer]

Wow I would say that is outstanding for a 70 grain bullet. I feel like breaking out the bubbly. I just made my first prototype swaging die for making 40 grain .225" bullets that attach to the power loads. I am excited to see if they work.

I just checked vel on the #4 Black power loads behind a 70gr 25cal cast boolit in a 14" TC barrel and got the following:
948
965
967
962
965
average of 961 I quite happy with the results and for a cost of less than 1 cent per shot, I'll be using this a lot more than 22lr.

[Traffer]

OK, here are some pictures of my first prototype .25 cal power load with an attached swaged .224" (22lr) 40 grain bullet. They hold nicely. Seating places pressure back on the crimp of the power load cinching it around the shaft in the base of the bullet. I have the dies ready. Ready to start production. I need to make a die to open the power load cases yet. They are hard to open concentrically so I will make a die. These are high res so you can expand them for good detail.
Attachment 192000Attachment 192001Attachment 192002

[rbuck351]

Good job Traffer
It will be interesting to see if they will handle the long jump through the .242 chamber and start straight in the barrel unless you are going to make your own chamber in a cutoff 22 barrel. The #4 power load should get a 40gr boolit moving pretty good.

[Traffer]

Pictures of the dies. first the base die. second the inner part of the base die, third base die with nose die, fourth base and nose dies together, and last the dies in the press.

Attachment 192003Attachment 192004Attachment 192005Attachment 192006Attachment 192007

[dverna]

Nice work Traffer. Having the power load "clinch" the base of the bullet is genius. It should reduce pressure in the chamber and the skirt formed will act like a HB to seal the bore. Looking forward to seeing how these shoot.

[rbuck351]

I tested vel on 6 48gr .255 boolits using an 8" 22mag barrel on my TC and the Black #4 power loads. Average was 1249fps with a low of 1204 and a high of 1292.

[NavyVet1959]

I tested vel on 6 48gr .255 boolits using an 8" 22mag barrel on my TC and the Black #4 power loads. Average was 1249fps with a low of 1204 and a high of 1292.

.255 bullets in a .22 mag barrel? Seems a bit large... Did you resize them to something like 0.225" first?

According to the data over at BallisticsByTheInch, that looks to be a bit better than than .22LR and a bit less than .22 mag for that length barrel.

Emailed CCI about the color codes and power numbers a few days ago and got a response back today. They said that I should rely on the numbers, not the colors since the colors have changed over the years.

[rbuck351]

Yeah, I fat fingered the numbers and didn't proof read. Should have been .225.

[NavyVet1959]

Well, the Remington 514 barrel came in today and it looks to be in pretty good shape. It turns out that it is 24.75" long, which might actually end up being long enough that that with one of the .22LR rounds it is chambered for, you might actually end up *losing* velocity.

I think I'll initially test it with the .22 power loads. I would prefer not to modify the existing .22LR chamber, so I'm thinking that for the .25 caliber power loads, I'll create a sleeve that fits over the barrel's breech shank which also extends another half inch or so and that sleeve will be chambered for the .25 caliber power load. Ideally, this would be threaded and I would have an identical one for .22 caliber power loads so I could make direct comparisons, but I have not gotten to the point where I'm comfortable enough with my mini-lathe to try single point threading on it. So, for initial testing, I'll probably just make a slam-fire "receiver" for it. I'm not concerned with the inaccuracy that a slam fire design will give me since this is going to just be a hard mounted test barrel and the only accuracy it needs is to NOT hit the chrony from 10 ft or so.