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Thread: .22 rimfire alternative

  1. #141
    Boolit Master



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    I see there is a seller in Oregon on eBay that has 8 5,000 rd cases of .25 cal power loads for $40 each and free shipping... tempting. Heck, 5,000 of just about anything for $40 is tempting!
    Dan in FL - Call me TD Savage 219 & 220 rifle/shotguns wanted.

  2. #142
    Boolit Master



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    Double tap, sorry!
    Dan in FL - Call me TD Savage 219 & 220 rifle/shotguns wanted.

  3. #143
    Boolit Master prsman23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyVet1959 View Post
    Last time I bought .22LR ammo, it was around $7-8 for a brick of 500
    What year was that?
    Have you taken into account inflation?
    9/10 on these types of threads if you factor inflation into the equation .22 is noticeably cheaper in today's money. It's nice to reflect and say that you bought it for $7. But in what wages were for the time it's not as good of a deal as you might think.


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  4. #144
    Boolit Master Traffer's Avatar
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    If I had 5k rounds of 25 cal nail gun charges, I would make a gun to shoot them.
    Quote Originally Posted by trooperdan View Post
    I see there is a seller in Oregon on eBay that has 8 5,000 rd cases of .25 cal power loads for $40 each and free shipping... tempting. Heck, 5,000 of just about anything for $40 is tempting!
    Jedediah Morse
    "To the kindly influence of Christianity we owe that degree of civil freedom, and political and social happiness which mankind now enjoys. . . . Whenever the pillars of Christianity shall be overthrown, our present republican forms of government, and all blessings which flow from them, must fall with them.".







  5. #145
    Boolit Master Traffer's Avatar
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    The cutting edges of chucking reamers have a taper to the sharp edges so there is clearance for the cutting edge. Much like a drill bit. I have tapered chucking reamers by spinning them in a drill press and tapering the end with a dremel and a diamond wheel. After tapering, took a stone and gave the flutes a slight bevel on the taper. Had to use a 10x loupe to see what I was doing though. I tried to make a chucking reamer smaller in diameter the full length once. Free hand with a dremel. Not such a good idea. lol But I buy the reamers on eBay that are under $5 in price. So no big loss. Here is a link of a guy who does it on a lathe. There are lucky people in this world that have lathes.
    https://youtu.be/lt_8yCLdnOE


    Quote Originally Posted by NavyVet1959 View Post
    I wonder if the end of the chucking reamer could be tapered a bit by putting it in a drill press and sliding a whet stone along it at a slight angle while it rotated. Assuming that the steel that they use is too hard for using a file...
    Last edited by Traffer; 03-14-2017 at 12:20 AM.
    Jedediah Morse
    "To the kindly influence of Christianity we owe that degree of civil freedom, and political and social happiness which mankind now enjoys. . . . Whenever the pillars of Christianity shall be overthrown, our present republican forms of government, and all blessings which flow from them, must fall with them.".







  6. #146
    Boolit Master



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    Quote Originally Posted by trooperdan View Post
    I see there is a seller in Oregon on eBay that has 8 5,000 rd cases of .25 cal power loads for $40 each and free shipping... tempting. Heck, 5,000 of just about anything for $40 is tempting!
    Looks like the .25 caliber power loads are very close to the diameter of a .22 mag (WMR / Winchester Magnum Rimfire) and the .22 Winchester Rimfire, depending upon how tight or loose the particular firearm's chamber might be.
    When you fill out your income tax forms at the end of the year, look and see how much money you have given the
    government throughout the year. Then, take a moment to ponder -- has the government done $X worth of
    stuff FOR you or TO you this year? I tend to believe the latter...

    Si vis pacem, para bellum -- If you want peace, prepare for war

    "Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue." -- Barry Goldwater

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  7. #147
    Boolit Master



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    The .25 cal power loads are listed on eBay for as cheap as $40 shipped for 10K loads! Why so cheap? Is the .25 cal power tool obsolete or something? Surely we can find a use for 10K rounds for $40 total coat!
    Dan in FL - Call me TD Savage 219 & 220 rifle/shotguns wanted.

  8. #148
    Boolit Master Traffer's Avatar
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    Anybody have a picture of these things. How long are they? Maybe I could turn them into full cartridges with bullets. I have a gun that I am in the process of making. A 22 Mag. At this point it wouldn't take anything at all to make it into a 25 cal necked down to .224" for 22 bullets.



    Quote Originally Posted by trooperdan View Post
    The .25 cal power loads are listed on eBay for as cheap as $40 shipped for 10K loads! Why so cheap? Is the .25 cal power tool obsolete or something? Surely we can find a use for 10K rounds for $40 total coat!
    Jedediah Morse
    "To the kindly influence of Christianity we owe that degree of civil freedom, and political and social happiness which mankind now enjoys. . . . Whenever the pillars of Christianity shall be overthrown, our present republican forms of government, and all blessings which flow from them, must fall with them.".







  9. #149
    Boolit Master Traffer's Avatar
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    I looked around on eBay could not find those. All the ones I saw were fairly expensive. No Wait...Found them. Yup 5K loads for $40 alright.

    Quote Originally Posted by trooperdan View Post
    I see there is a seller in Oregon on eBay that has 8 5,000 rd cases of .25 cal power loads for $40 each and free shipping... tempting. Heck, 5,000 of just about anything for $40 is tempting!
    Last edited by Traffer; 03-17-2017 at 12:05 AM.
    Jedediah Morse
    "To the kindly influence of Christianity we owe that degree of civil freedom, and political and social happiness which mankind now enjoys. . . . Whenever the pillars of Christianity shall be overthrown, our present republican forms of government, and all blessings which flow from them, must fall with them.".







  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by trooperdan View Post
    The .25 cal power loads are listed on eBay for as cheap as $40 shipped for 10K loads! Why so cheap? Is the .25 cal power tool obsolete or something? Surely we can find a use for 10K rounds for $40 total coat!
    Didn't see any listings for 10K for $40, but saw a couple of 5K for $40.

    They are probably fairly old stock. The ones that I bought back toward the beginning of this thread appeared to be from perhaps quite a few years ago from the style of packaging, but they all work well. With the .25 caliber ones that the person is selling, I would say that they are probably pretty old stock also. Just for curiosity's sake, I ordered 5K of the black ones and 5K of the brown ones. Maybe the brown ones will work in the .22 mag NAA cylinder. The black ones are probably the same power as the purple ones. They don't use the black color code anymore as far as I can tell, but I did find a web page that seemed to indicate that both black and purple were for the same power level. I'm not sure what I'll use the black ones for. The purple are listed as 755 fps with a 350 gr projectile, so 443 ft-lbs. I'm thinking some sort of chamber adapter with an offset hole for the rimfire power load to be inserted in so that the firing pin will strike the edge might work.
    When you fill out your income tax forms at the end of the year, look and see how much money you have given the
    government throughout the year. Then, take a moment to ponder -- has the government done $X worth of
    stuff FOR you or TO you this year? I tend to believe the latter...

    Si vis pacem, para bellum -- If you want peace, prepare for war

    "Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue." -- Barry Goldwater

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  11. #151
    Boolit Master



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    Well, my Omark .25 cal power loads arrived today, S4 power. These are small, .297 rim, .246 body and only .383 in length. Now to find a use for them!
    Dan in FL - Call me TD Savage 219 & 220 rifle/shotguns wanted.

  12. #152
    Boolit Master



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    Quote Originally Posted by trooperdan View Post
    Well, my Omark .25 cal power loads arrived today, S4 power. These are small, .297 rim, .246 body and only .383 in length. Now to find a use for them!
    Do you have any .22 mag firearms that you can see if they will fit? They look pretty close and with the SAAMI tolerances, it's entirely possible that a firearm chambered for .22 mag might work with the .25 caliber power loads.

    If I had the rimfire firing pin conversion on my Thompson Encore, I would know exactly how I would use them. I would create chamber adapters that would work with my .223 and .300 WinMag barrels that I have for the Encore.
    When you fill out your income tax forms at the end of the year, look and see how much money you have given the
    government throughout the year. Then, take a moment to ponder -- has the government done $X worth of
    stuff FOR you or TO you this year? I tend to believe the latter...

    Si vis pacem, para bellum -- If you want peace, prepare for war

    "Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue." -- Barry Goldwater

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  13. #153
    Boolit Master Traffer's Avatar
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    If you have the right sized head on the case of cartridge, you could drill a hole in the cartridge just big enough to fit these. If the hole was offset and the dimensions were correct the normal firing pin would hit the rim of the nail gun cartridge no matter how it was placed in the chamber. I don't know the magic diameter of head for that, but someone mentioned 303 British. Then they could be used as kind of a primer/some of the powder substitute. Maybe a 45acp or 45 colt. You might have to make up some dummy shells that did not have center holes for the primer if the primer holes got in the way of doing this...just a thought.
    I have a 22 mag and I ordered some of these so when they come I will try them in the mag and let you folks know.
    Jedediah Morse
    "To the kindly influence of Christianity we owe that degree of civil freedom, and political and social happiness which mankind now enjoys. . . . Whenever the pillars of Christianity shall be overthrown, our present republican forms of government, and all blessings which flow from them, must fall with them.".







  14. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traffer View Post
    If you have the right sized head on the case of cartridge, you could drill a hole in the cartridge just big enough to fit these. If the hole was offset and the dimensions were correct the normal firing pin would hit the rim of the nail gun cartridge no matter how it was placed in the chamber. I don't know the magic diameter of head for that, but someone mentioned 303 British. Then they could be used as kind of a primer/some of the powder substitute. Maybe a 45acp or 45 colt. You might have to make up some dummy shells that did not have center holes for the primer if the primer holes got in the way of doing this...just a thought.
    I have a 22 mag and I ordered some of these so when they come I will try them in the mag and let you folks know.
    The only .22 mag that I have is a .22 mag cylinder for the NAA mini-revolver. I'll try the #2 (brown) load in it, but I would be rather hesitant to try the black load in it. Assuming it really is the same as the purple loads, that's probably a bit high.

    According the the estimated delivery time on the UPS website, my 10K of the .25 caliber power loads should be in on Wednesday. I'll at least get a chance to see if it will fit in the .22 mag cylinder at that time. I don't think that the NAA cylinder has that loose of tolerances since I had normal .22 mag ammo whose rim was thick enough that it prevented the cylinder from rotating. It's quite possible that I'm going to have to attempt to make a chamber adapter on my mini-lathe.
    Last edited by NavyVet1959; 03-21-2017 at 12:15 AM.
    When you fill out your income tax forms at the end of the year, look and see how much money you have given the
    government throughout the year. Then, take a moment to ponder -- has the government done $X worth of
    stuff FOR you or TO you this year? I tend to believe the latter...

    Si vis pacem, para bellum -- If you want peace, prepare for war

    "Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue." -- Barry Goldwater

    Tag Line


  15. #155
    Boolit Master
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    I have been reading this thread and it got me to thinking. So, having a contender in 256win and a box of #3 Ramset 22 blanks, I drilled out the back end of a 256 case. Thats when I realized the back end of the case isn't thick enough to support the entire length of the blank case and the mouth will probably open up like a rivit and won't push back out. I then made a chamber adapter with a short neck and dropped a 75gr cast boolit in the chamber loaded the #3 load and fired it. It made a loud bang and the empty load came out of the adapter without much effort. I fired another lengthwise into a piece of semi dry spruce fire wood to check for penetration. It made it 6 inches. My order for 5000 of the 25cal loads is supposed to be here Fri. and I will open the adapter to fit those. I didn't check the velocity of the #3 22cal ramset loads but I'm guessing somewhere around 1500 fps with the 75gr bullet. This is going to be some cheap shooting.

  16. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbuck351 View Post
    I have been reading this thread and it got me to thinking. So, having a contender in 256win and a box of #3 Ramset 22 blanks, I drilled out the back end of a 256 case. Thats when I realized the back end of the case isn't thick enough to support the entire length of the blank case and the mouth will probably open up like a rivit and won't push back out. I then made a chamber adapter with a short neck and dropped a 75gr cast boolit in the chamber loaded the #3 load and fired it. It made a loud bang and the empty load came out of the adapter without much effort. I fired another lengthwise into a piece of semi dry spruce fire wood to check for penetration. It made it 6 inches. My order for 5000 of the 25cal loads is supposed to be here Fri. and I will open the adapter to fit those. I didn't check the velocity of the #3 22cal ramset loads but I'm guessing somewhere around 1500 fps with the 75gr bullet. This is going to be some cheap shooting.
    I was at Wal-mart today and went over to the ammo cabinet to see if .22LRs were becoming more available. Surprisingly, I saw a pretty good assortment, most going for around $3.50-4.50 per 50. I did see 2 of the 500-round bricks of Remington Thunderbolts and they were going for $24.95. The last I paid was around $7-8, so that's quite a jump, but I suspect that is probably as good as you'll find currently.

    On the other hand, these power loads were $40 for 5K of them, so that mean $4 per 500. Let's assume $1.25 per pound of lead (most of my lead is $1 per pound or less when I buy it though). That works out to be $4.91 per 500 55gr bullets using the Lee "Bator" mold that I have. So, I'm looking at $8.91 per 500 rounds. I guess I can live with that. I'll probably fire a lot of those at a bullet stop / recovery barrel, so I suspect that the majority of the lead will be recovered and as such, the lead costs will go down quite a bit.

    And besides, it's not like you can actually *buy* loaded .22LR rounds with 55gr bullets in them anyway.

    I'm thinking those black color code power loads might lend themselves to a my 7.7x58 Arisaka or .300 WinMag Thompson Encore if I can just create a chamber adapter for them.

    The Thompson Contender that you have supposedly has the ability as it comes from the factory to fire both rimfire or centerfire ammo. They didn't do that with the Encore. The two different rimfire firing pin conversions that I've seen so far go for $50 and $75 each.

    Of course, I'll need to open up one of each of the power loads and weigh the powders before shooting them. I'm not that concerned about the #2 (brown) load, but the black colored power load is probably something that I should look at a bit more carefully before just trying it out in a revolver with cylinder walls that might not be thick enough.

    I'm thinking that a chamber adapter could be made for the 7.7x58 or .300 WinMag by drilling a 0.25" hole straight down the center of the chamber adapter, but stopping maybe 1" from the base of the adapter. Then another hole could be drilled off-center from the base at whatever diameter is necessary for the .22 or .25 caliber power loads. I'll have to draw it out to see, but I'm thinking the two holes will intersect well enough to allow the gases to get redirected with minimal loss in velocity.
    When you fill out your income tax forms at the end of the year, look and see how much money you have given the
    government throughout the year. Then, take a moment to ponder -- has the government done $X worth of
    stuff FOR you or TO you this year? I tend to believe the latter...

    Si vis pacem, para bellum -- If you want peace, prepare for war

    "Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue." -- Barry Goldwater

    Tag Line


  17. #157
    Boolit Master
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    A late and short example concerning the OP; my Rossi break open single shot is perfect for playing like this. I used a Yellow .22 power load and regular .22 pellets- accuracy was ok across the 40 ft workshop. I filed it under Useful Knowledge.
    Best, Thomas.

  18. #158
    Boolit Master
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    When you drill the hole for the power load, make sure you fit the rim rebate close in size to the rim of the power load or it will split the rim off. My first chamber adapter is in the trash. The Encore and for that matter the Contender I think are both strong enough to handle about any power load with any reasonable boolit weight. I suspect that anything but the lightest power load would split rims in any 22LR firearm that does not closely enclose the rim. I also have a 22H that I will build an adapter for and use a cast 37gr boolit. That should get some fair velocity.

  19. #159
    Boolit Master Traffer's Avatar
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    My batch of 5k will be here next Monday. I still don't know exactly how big or long these things are. But the excitement is building. This is so much fun, to see all the interesting ideas that castboolit members are coming up with. By the way people are talking (including the guy I bought these from) the black loads are really powerful. I bought the black. My process is to be making an almost necked down version for the rifle that I am building. I have it chambered for a 22 mag right now but am going to change the chambering for these .25 cal loads. I am hoping to actually attach a bullet to them, or in them. One thing I thought of was to drill about a .15" hole in the very middle of the crimp and either expand the crimp back open to accept a 22cal slug or to make something that will attach on top of the crimp and hold on to the charge well enough to make the powder charge and bullet a single round. But that is just some wild speculation at this time as I do not even know what these guys actually look like yet. But by hook or by crook I will get them shooting.
    Jedediah Morse
    "To the kindly influence of Christianity we owe that degree of civil freedom, and political and social happiness which mankind now enjoys. . . . Whenever the pillars of Christianity shall be overthrown, our present republican forms of government, and all blessings which flow from them, must fall with them.".







  20. #160
    Boolit Master



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    Quote Originally Posted by Traffer View Post
    I am hoping to actually attach a bullet to them, or in them.
    I'm not really concerned with that. I figure separating powder charge from projectile was good enough for the 16" guns on the Iowa class battleships, it's good enough for me.
    When you fill out your income tax forms at the end of the year, look and see how much money you have given the
    government throughout the year. Then, take a moment to ponder -- has the government done $X worth of
    stuff FOR you or TO you this year? I tend to believe the latter...

    Si vis pacem, para bellum -- If you want peace, prepare for war

    "Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue." -- Barry Goldwater

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check