Couldn't find a better place to ask these questions. Have acquired some .30-06 military ammo some of which is WWII. The first three pics are black-tipped (armor piercing???) with 1943 dates. The last three pics are orange-tipped (???) with only a "5" for a date. I have others that came with these, but all of them have plain tips. I assume the plain tips are regular ammo. Can anyone confirm what these are and what the "5" means? What is the value of them? Thanks for any help you can provide.
Black tip should be AP (Armor Piercing).
Kind of odd the cannelure position doesn't match the case mouth. It's not like there was other 30's being loaded for at that time, besides the 30 Carbine, anyway. Well, we were making 303 for the Brits. Maybe an ammo historian can weigh in on that one.
I give loading advice based on my actual results in factory rifles with standard chambers, twist rates and basic accurizing.
My goals for using cast boolits are lots of good, cheap, and reasonably accurate shooting, while avoiding overly tedious loading processes.
The BHN Deformation Formula, and why I don't use it.
How to find and fix sizing die eccentricity problems.
Do you trust your casting thermometer?
A few musings.
Orange (or red) tips on US Small Arms ammo indicates tracer, black is AP.
On the LC cases dated 5, I have read somewhere that the date stamp for the heading die was damaged so the just went with the last digit for the year. True or not? I don't know.
They are all corrosive primed, but that isn't a big worry; just clean your rife the same day you shoot it with something that will remove the resulting salts from the primer. GI bore cleaner or water is usually the recommended solvent. I have used Hoppe's #9 on an SKS with "slightly corrosive" ???? Chinese ammo.
As to what its worth? No idea.
Robert
The cartridges you show.
SL = salt Lake arsenal
LC 5 . Indicates Lake City 1955
Value wise $1.00 Each maybe
NRA Endowment Member
International Ammunition Association
New York, the Empire State Where Empires were Won and Lost
I thought SL = Saint Louis. Most Ranges in California are on BLM land and they will not let you shoot armour piercing ammo. It is bad news if the Forest Service catches you shooting it.
A GUN THAT'S COCKED AND UNLOADED AIN'T GOOD FOR NUTHIN'........... ROOSTER COGBURN
strangwn,
Your WWII ammo is not worth much as it is corrosive primed and not of recent manufacture. The "5" could mean 1945 or 1955 as stated by salpal. If he/she will pay $1.00 for each round, I suggest you sell all to salpal because that ancient WWII ammo is not worth a nickel a round hereabouts.
The black tip ammo is armor piercing and the orange tip is tracer. That 73-year old ammo is not worth much in 2016.
Adam
Last edited by Adam Helmer; 10-05-2016 at 03:56 PM.
Your right, I was wrong St. LouisOriginally Posted by GOPHER SLAYER
NRA Endowment Member
International Ammunition Association
New York, the Empire State Where Empires were Won and Lost
As FYI the knurl above the case mouth is an identification knurl used to distinguish work-in-process AP bullets and jackets from similar tracers. APM2 typically had a 90/10 gilding metal jacket, whereas tracer was generally gilding metal-clad steel. After forming the point, a size "T" lead shot was inserted into the jacket to position the AP core before forming and closing the base.
It was common practice to grind one number of the headstamp bunter as an expedient. Grinding the "3" of the "43" date, leaving a single "4" is 1944, and grinding the "4" off the "54" leaving a single "5" is 1955, occasionally seen in 7.62, grinding the 5 off 65 and leaving a single 6 is 1966.
The ENEMY is listening.
HE wants to know what YOU know.
Keep it to yourself.
SL is St. Louis arsenal. "5" is Lake City 1955, which is noncorrosive.
the top knurl was to hold the carbide in place before the base was filled. those should have a 22cal insert the ones without the knurl had a 25cal and was used most of the time in a BMG in belts
most buy them for show.
price is what you can get
BUT if you shoot the tracer make sure you clean VERY good.
Attachment 178244this from a belt and LC 54
Thanks for the info. "too many things" picture is the 06 AP I am familiar with. I shot a bunch, probably worth a small fortune now if I had kept them!
I give loading advice based on my actual results in factory rifles with standard chambers, twist rates and basic accurizing.
My goals for using cast boolits are lots of good, cheap, and reasonably accurate shooting, while avoiding overly tedious loading processes.
The BHN Deformation Formula, and why I don't use it.
How to find and fix sizing die eccentricity problems.
Do you trust your casting thermometer?
A few musings.
The color of the seal around the primer will tell you if it is corrosive. Red is corrosive, before 52, I believe. Black seal or blue is non corrosive. You clean corrosive with hot water. Stick the barrel in the hot water and suck it up with the cleaning brush. The hot barrel will dry, then oil it.
Color of primer lacquer is NOT conclusive, as red indicator was used at LC well into the 1970s!
The ENEMY is listening.
HE wants to know what YOU know.
Keep it to yourself.
I have shot a bunch of WW2 ammo in my earlier days. I had a friend that worked in a National Guard armory and they had so much left over they didn't know what to do with it after the switch to 7.62 and 5.56. I was poor in those days and he would bring me some now and again. I still have a bunch of WW2 brass from that period that I still reload to this day. It is good stuff!
OK guys, how about these. They are black tip from FA with red primer sealer. However, they are not attracted to a magnet and the cases are marked FA 59 MATCH. Never heard of AP Match ammo. Plus, the projectile doesn't look exactly like any of the black tip ammo posted above. Just curious as to what they are as I could find nothing on my interweb search. Thanks....
Attachment 178273 Attachment 178274
"Never heard of AP Match ammo"
I've not heard of AP ammo being labeled as match ammo, but the 168 gr AP ammunition was recognized as being exceptionally accurate due to the higher consistency of primer ignition required for ammunition that might be used in aircraft synchronized guns.
The 168 gr AP bullet was longer for its weight than a lead core bullet and this gave better long range performance than the available matchgrade bullets in that weight range. The M2 AP was often used by target shooters of post WW2 years.
Perhaps a lot that proved exceptionally accurate could be set aside and marked for match use.
The coloration of the nose looks different, perhaps due to lighting. Is it a stanate chemical staining?
RR;
Looks like someone pulled the original GI bullets and replaced them with Remington Bronzepoints for hunting. In the early 60's we did quite a bit of pulling and replacing bullets to use for hunting. GI ammo was $0.5 per round as was a replacement bullet. Factory 30-06 hunting ammo was about $6.00 per box making it three times as expensive. $6.00 was quite a lot of money to me as I was making $1.00 to $1.40 per hour.
BIG OR SMALL I LIKE THEM ALL, 577 TO 22 HORNET.
elkhunter, that was my thought as well. But the bullets don't look like any bronzepoints I have ever seen. You will note they have an additional groove in them. Strange looking bullets. Plus the camera flash brings out the bronze color in them, in hand they look black.
Some WW1 .30-06 AP ammo had a lead core with the only attempt at making it pass through steel plates easily being a thin smear of lead alloy bonded to the nose of the bullet.
Somehow the small amount of lead prevented the bullet from skidding off the plate while at the same time it lubricated the nose under high pressure allowing it to pass through the plate with jacket intact.
I don't know how well this worked if at all, but they had to stop using them when the Germans claimed these were exposed lead soft point hunting bullets and threated to execute US soldiers found with these bullets.
The nose of these bullets looks to be a separate piece from the main body of the bullet.
If I'm not mistaken early production Bronze point bullets were grey looking. Some bronze alloys (Gun Metal Bronze used to cast cannon barrels ) are gray rather than yellow or reddish coppery looking. Also Bronze often takes on a dark patina if left polished and untreated. After polishing some copper alloy bullet jackets with White Diamond polishing compound they quickly turned black where I'd touched them with bare fingers.
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