M1917 enfield

[Glassman66]

I was gifted a M1917 recently and would like to know if anyone else has one, what ammo they like, and what is the best way to clean it up?





The stock has been cut down at some point and from what I can tell, only the bolt has been changed out. Its an Eddystone rifle and the bolt is a Winchester.

I have been reading on the history of it, but any info you guys might have would be great.

I only want to clean it up properly and hope to do some shooting with it. Probably give this to my son, I don't have the eyes for regular sights any more.

Thanks!




Randy

[Glassman66]

I think I probably put this in the wrong place, if a mod wants to move it, that would be great!




Randy

[WILCO]

What's the story behind the gift Randy? If you don't mind.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

They were a standard U.S. service rifle in World War I and take the .30-06 cartridge. They are a strong action and have formed the basis for many custom sporting rifles and conversion to magnum cartridges such as the .300 Win. Mag.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I was gifted a M1917 recently and would like to know if anyone else has one, what ammo they like, and what is the best way to clean it up?






Randy

They are, most of them and in most respects, extremely good rifles. But a few, Eddystones more than those from the Winchester and Remington Ilion factories, have been known to crack the receiver ring. I would want to very closely examine what might be a crack or might be a harmless surface scratch on the rough-turned front of the receiver ring. You could immerse it in gasoline or alcohol, and see if any weeps from a crack after it has been wiped dry.

You should do a board search, for there have been several threads on them, with a lot of detail about things like cock-on-opening and speedlock conversions, after-market triggers etc. Sporter conversion is covered in great detail by McFarland's "Introduction to Modern Gunsmithing", a 1960s book which is still very useful and available quite cheaply on www.bookfinder.com . The bad news is that he chooses it as his main subject because just about everything that might need doing, needs doing on the Enfield.

[Glassman66]

What's the story behind the gift Randy? If you don't mind.

Well, its not really a heart felt gift on his part, he has a domestic violence conviction and can't own or posses any firearms. He had them stored in a friends storage building and we traveled this last weekend to see family and friends and he gave them to my son and I.

But he is my wifes real dad and we do keep in touch some. He was never a real father to her, but blood is blood.

Sadly, they were all put away dirty and now I have some cleaning to do. Getting ready to have a knee replaced and will give me something to do.

There were 8 guns total. 2- Marlin 60's, 2- muzzleloaders, 3- shotguns, and the m1917. Regardless of where they came from, I will enjoy them. I have a 16 month old grandson and will pass on a 22 to him when he is old enough. He won't need to know his great grandpa was a turd.





Randy

[Texas by God]

Outdoors, B12 Chemtool, a 1 gallon bucket of gasoline and a parts brush are your friends when cleaning a filthy gun. Take the wood off. Enfield 14s&17s are excellent rifles.

[opos]

I've been a fan of the 1917 Enfield rifles since I was a teen in Colorado..I am not a military collector and am a big fan of nicely done milsurp sporter conversions...no I'd not cut up anything now a days but in the 50's I worked in a gun store and Enfields and Springfields were the guns everyone had stuffed in a box or barrel in the corner..lots of folks cut the stocks down to save weight and many were converted to other calibers..

I'd suggest a stop at a local gunsmith and have he headspace checked out (and also a visual for any flaws like cracks, etc)..these are old guns and many have been "used and abused" over the years..not to fear them but headspace should only run a few bucks to have checked if they even charge you to do it..and then you can be pretty sure it can be a decent shooter..

I currently have 3 "sporterized" 1917's ... A 30-06 in a beautiful Fagen stock...A 25-06 again in a custom Fagen stock and a 30-06 Ackley improved in a Bishop Stock from the 50's...all shoot way better than I can...all are scoped with Nikon Buckmaster 3x9 scopes...I hand load for them but they shoot factory ammo just great...Enjoy whatever you do but do get a quick once over by a smith..then it's off to the range.

Good luck on the knee...just passed 10 years on a total knee on the right side..best decision I ever made...do the exercises, do the exercises, do the exercises....it's a pain in the rear but in the long run it makes things so much better.

[Glassman66]

I've been a fan of the 1917 Enfield rifles since I was a teen in Colorado..I am not a military collector and am a big fan of nicely done milsurp sporter conversions...no I'd not cut up anything now a days but in the 50's I worked in a gun store and Enfields and Springfields were the guns everyone had stuffed in a box or barrel in the corner..lots of folks cut the stocks down to save weight and many were converted to other calibers..

I'd suggest a stop at a local gunsmith and have he headspace checked out (and also a visual for any flaws like cracks, etc)..these are old guns and many have been "used and abused" over the years..not to fear them but headspace should only run a few bucks to have checked if they even charge you to do it..and then you can be pretty sure it can be a decent shooter..

I currently have 3 "sporterized" 1917's ... A 30-06 in a beautiful Fagen stock...A 25-06 again in a custom Fagen stock and a 30-06 Ackley improved in a Bishop Stock from the 50's...all shoot way better than I can...all are scoped with Nikon Buckmaster 3x9 scopes...I hand load for them but they shoot factory ammo just great...Enjoy whatever you do but do get a quick once over by a smith..then it's off to the range.

Good luck on the knee...just passed 10 years on a total knee on the right side..best decision I ever made...do the exercises, do the exercises, do the exercises....it's a pain in the rear but in the long run it makes things so much better.

I will 50 next week and had my right knee partially replaced in 07 when I was 41. Did the exercises religiously, and its been good since. This gave me no warning, just one day it was done. Had it scoped a month ago and just fired it up. I see the doctor on friday to get this scheduled. Sucks getting old! Wished I would have listened to my Dad and took better care of my body, got a lot of things messed up. Maybe my kids will listen to me!




Randy

[Wayne Smith]

I donno, Randy. Did we ever believe, at that age, we would be as old as our parents?

[Glassman66]

I donno, Randy. Did we ever believe, at that age, we would be as old as our parents?

Nope, worst thing is, I still do stupid stuff! I guess its a guy thing!




Randy

[Ed in North Texas]

I have a couple of '17s and a '14. Very strong action, used to be common to use them for conversion to .375 H&H, strong enough and long enough. Headspace can be an issue as your bolt was changed. Have it checked. Even if it is a bit excessive (one of mine is), I just load custom for that rifle and make cases just for that rifle. Anneal the case to the shoulder, load with a low level load and either a light cast boolit or COW (Cream of Wheat) filler to form the case to the chamber. Neck size after that.

Enjoy the rifle, not sleek and sexy like the 03, but a workhorse with the same cartridge.

[WILCO]

Thanks for sharing the story Randy. Glad those items made their way to you.

Looking forward to the reports of fun and success.

[Reverend Al]

I just added a full wood military 1917 to my collection of military rifles. I already had a full wood military 1914 in .303 British and had wanted the matching .30-06 for years. It's a jewel and although I've only shot it once so far it looks like it will be a "shooter".

Now if I could only find a decent "shooter" 1903 Springfield that wouldn't "break the bank" ...

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I donno, Randy. Did we ever believe, at that age, we would be as old as our parents?

My grandfather met a man who fought at Waterloo, and was too shy to ask if he saw Man of Destiny on his white horse. He told me "Ask the questions, and if you die younger than him, I'll give you a piece of my mind."

[Hardcast416taylor]

Up until I retired for the last time in 2003 I would pick up `chopped up and sportered` 1917 and 1914 Enfields. I would make them as close as possible to being a `Silk Purse` from being a `Sows Ear`. I am down to 1 Model 1917 I made into a .338-06 and 1 original wooded all miltary 1914 in .303. One of the `17 rifles I made up into a sweet looking and shooting sporter was for a very good friend that had a lot to do with saving my life. So I made him up a .338-06, like mine, as a way of thanking him. Look on Boyd`s gunstocks web site for reasonably priced replacement sporter stocks. A Timney replacement trigger is always a nice touch. I left the `bolt cocking on closing feature on all my rifles, I like it better actually than cock on opening. I`ve run across firearms that had been left in a storage unit for `awhile`, some were real basket cases! Most miltary barreled Enfields were also like `03 Springfields and seemed to favor 150 Gr. factory or handloaded ammo for decent accuracy as they were rifled to best rifled accuracy that way.Robert

[Glassman66]

Thanks for all the info guys! There is no money for triggers or stocks, what I have is what I got to work with.

Whats the best way to clean up the stock? It has a lot of dirt and grime from being poorly taken care of. The stock is pretty beat up, but that doesn't bother me.

The front sight is a little loose, haven't removed it yet to look at it.

The bluing is pretty much gone, should I leave it, or reblue it? I don't think value is a concern with me. If its a shooter, we will hang on to it for sure.

I will get the headspace checked though.




Randy

[Der Gebirgsjager]

It is basically a very nice rifle, will probably outlast you and maybe your sons. The wood in the stock is walnut, and of a very good utilitarian grade.
You'll probably get about 1,000 answers on how to go about cleaning the stock up. How to proceed depends on just how beat up it is. From your photos it doesn't appear too bad, but it might look worse in person. Here's how I go about refinishing mine, and like I said, there's 999 more methods. My first consideration is if it's very oily. Some stocks are just about black with absorbed oil, and you'll never get a satisfactory finish on them unless you get the oil out of the wood. You'll naturally have to take the action out of the stock and remove all of the attached metal like sling swivels and the butt plate. There are strong cleaners like Simple Green and solvents like paint thinner that can be used to remove the oil; or sometimes you can just set it in the sun and the oil will start rising to the surface from the heat and you can wipe it off. Winter is rapidly approaching, so maybe your days aren't that hot anymore, and you can do this with your wife's hairdryer, or even better a heat gun. The controversial method, and one that I have used with a great deal of success is to use Easy Off oven cleaner. Spray it on, wait 12-30 minutes and wipe it off with a wet cloth. Some say it harms the wood, but not in my experience and it really sucks out all of the dirt and grease. Just from your photos, I'd say it doesn't look very oily so you might skip that step. Next, how bad are the dings, dents and scars? They can be removed to a great extent by steaming, which involves a hot iron and wet cloth applied over the dent, but usually there will be a resulting dark spot that will not go away. If the surface of the wood is actually broken, rather than just dented the only option you have is to fill the spot, which will likely be visible when the job is completed, or to take the surrounding wood down to the level of the bottom of the break/dent with a wood rasp. So, summarizing to this point, given the worse case scenario, I start with the oven cleaner job, let it dry for a day or two, put the stock in my bench vise and go over the surface as needed with a cabinet maker's rasp (available from Brownell's, not cheap). Of course you can do the same job with a sanding block and various grades of sandpaper. Always sand with the grain, not across. If it's pretty bad you might need to start with 60 grit, otherwise 80 grit. Work your way through 120 grit and 220 grit, which is probably good enough. Since I've done it for years and years (a lot!) I use a Makita palm sander. "Oh--you can't do a good job with a sander!" Oh yes you can. When you get rid of the dings and dents then you should whisker the stock by wetting it with a wet cloth and letting it dry. That will raise up little "whiskers" of wood which you sand off with your 220 grit paper. Do this twice. Now you're ready for the finish. Three choices here, dull oil, semi-gloss, high gloss. I prefer the semi-gloss, and for either I use Birchwood Casey Tru-Oil. For the dull finish you can just apply boiled linseed oil in very thin coats. Sometimes it take a long time to dry, and although that's what your rifle was doubtlessly finished with at the arsenal I'd stay away from it and try Chem Pak spray on finish. Very easy to apply and will fill the pours in the wood. Just hang the stock up and spray, keep the can moving, when it dries hang it up and spray a second coat in the other direction. Like top to bottom the first time, next time reversed and bottom to top. Directions come with the can. Brownell's again. For the Tru-Oil finish, apply it with your forefinger. Just dunk your fingertip in the bottle and apply to the wood in a circular motion, doing just a couple of square inches per dunk. Scrape some of it off your finger on the inside of the bottle neck as you pull your finger out to avoid having to deal with too much at once. You'll get the hang of it quickly. Rubbing it on with a circular motion rubs the oil into the pores. Hard to tell how long it will take to dry--on a warm day maybe a couple of hours, but in the winter maybe a day. I never put a second coat on the same day, because if the first coat isn't dry you'll get into trouble and it may never dry. So, the next day I put a second coat on, and the following day a third coat. Now it should be visibly thick. You may still see the pores, but they will have material in them. Now take a nice new 4-0 (0000) steel wool pad, preferably stainless steel pad but doesn't have to be, and rub the finish back almost to the wood, going with the grain. You can get these pads at the hardware store, cheap. Get all the dust off the stock and put a new coat on using the same technique. After two more coats, considering that it's a cut down military stock and not someone's prized Sako or Win. Mod. 70 you probably have a satisfactory high gloss finish. Now, if you want a satin finish rub it down with the steel wool again, but not clear to the wood. With either finish the final step that will really make a difference is to apply a thin coat of carnauba paste wax. I use Trewax brand, maybe not so easy to find. There are others on the market. Apply it using the same circular technique with your forefinger as you did with the Tru-Oil. Just put your finger on the wax for a second and the heat of your finger will melt off enough for an application. Cover a couple of square inches and repeat. Let it dry for half an hour and buff it off with a soft rag. Done. You should get something that looks like the picture below, which was done exactly this way, and which is a good level of finish for a utilitarian hunting/target rifle. This stock is birch and your walnut stock will look even better! Good luck on your project.
Attachment 177753
Click to enlarge.

About the front sight, U.S. military rifles of that period use a key in a slot concealed by the sight to hold the sight vertically on the barrel. You remove the sight by driving out the cross pin, then drive the sight off the front of the barrel. If the key in the slot is wobbly the sight will be also. Usually not hard or expensive to get a new key if it has been monkeyed with or deformed from someone else removing the sight at an earlier time that didn't know how to go about it. So a new key might solve your problem, or if the key is o.k. but the slot is deformed you can tighten the slot up around the key with some judicious peening using a hammer and punch, narrowing the slot. But, again, since this is a utilitarian grade sporter, you might fix it satisfactorily with some red Locktite in the slot. Put in the key, let it harden, then reassemble.

[Glassman66]

Thanks for that info DG! I am a bodyman and do work with wood from time to time. I just didn't know how to get the grime an oil out. It is worse than it looks in the pics.

The stock is really beat to hell, can't decide if I want to take it all the way down or just brighten it up and leave the almost a hundred years of use. I like a satin finish, no gloss for me. I have used tung oil quite a bit on furniture, would that work on stocks as well? If not I'll use the linseed oil.

I could see the pin on the front sight just hadn't pulled it off or really knew what was under there. Thanks for the knowledge.

Hope I can work on it in the next few weeks.





Randy

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Yes, lots of stockmakers use tung oil. It applies a lot like boiled linseed oil. My only complaint, on a walnut stock which tends to be dark wood anyway, is that it makes it dark(er), whereas the Tru-Oil doesn't darken the wood. So if you want a lighter shade of finish then just the Tru-Oil over the natural unstained walnut is very nice. Maybe a photo when you finish?