Paper patching CJ bullet from .358 to .366

[tammons]

I have about 300 jacketed 180 gr Speer .358 flat tips, but don't have a 358 rifle any more.

I do have a 9.3x62 which takes a .366 bullet.

I ran one through the 9.3x62 barrel and it basically falls though until the last inch or two of the barrel at the muzzle where the lands barley dig in.

I was wondering if PP'd the 180 grainers would work (or masking tape) with some accuracy.

Also thinking about plinker loads from 358 pistol bullets.

In general what does a paper patch do to pressure compared to a normal lead bullet load and also a CJ bullet load. Does it cause more or less pressure.

I have not decided to try this yet, just thinking out loud.

Thanks

[Oyeboten]

I will be brooding on similar issues soon also.

I have an old 9.3x62 Rifle on the way.

One of my thoughts is that one may be able to arrange a fairly simple Swage device, allowing one to bump up erstwhile .358 ish Boolits, to the desired .366 or as may be.

Otherwise, one is looking to have some Molds made to order, or to stay with Jacketed....or, maybe, make one's own mold for Paper Patching, where no lube grooves are needed, and, this might be possible if one can re profile a series of Drill Bit ends, or to elect an appropriate Die Grinding Burr, for having something tolerable in the way of Boolit front geometry/shape.

I really need to look in to Swaging in general...it could sure solve a lot of problems I think, and allow one to really have what one wants Boolit wise for any Cartridge in question.

[tammons]

The prvi 286 gr ammo is fairly cheap, and packs a wallop.

I just have a lot of these 358 bullet.
Was going to barrel one of my Savages in 358 win, but why when I have a 9.3x62 and an 8mm Mauser. Just made no sense.

Thinking about 358 cal reduced and plinking loads with wallop with less recoil.

Shot two deer with the 286 gr prvi ammo last year.

[Oyeboten]

Have you slugged your Bore?


I read some can be as much as .372

For which, one may as well 'Size' down in a couple steps ( longer, and likely costom made sizing Die, which holds the whole Boolit above the constriction area ) from any of the .377 .380 ish Boolits.

[tammons]

I ran a .358 bullet through the barrel and the lands at the last 2" or so are right at .358".

[Oyeboten]

I ran a .358 bullet through the barrel and the lands at the last 2" or so are right at .358".

But the Bullet did not receive enough Rifling impress to decide your Bore diameter...

[tammons]

It impressed the lands, not the grooves.
I will do that if I decide to go ahead with PP.

This barrel has only about 30 rounds through it.

[Old Coot]

First off NOE makes an excellent 9.3 bullet a flat nosed spire at 180 gr. If that doesn't move your needle Accurate moulds has a whole bunch of them from 180gr to over 300 and he will cut them to suit your rifle's chamber and barrel. NOE also markets a really cute resizing set up with push through sizing dies to suit almost every occasion.

The easiest way out of your problem would be to: Sell the bullets., or knurel them with a pair of files (by rolling them back and forth between them) so that the patching material has something to grip. Patch and shoot the durn things.

When you get the rifle , make a chamber cast or pound cast . The bullet has to fit the throat for accuracy. If it doesn't it may enter the rifling cockeyed and good luck if that happens. Accuracy will be junk. Brodie

[tammons]

Have had the rifle set up for a couple of years.
Thanks for the info.

[Old Coot]

tammons, You are welcome and I wish you luck. I have a 9.3x57, and am having a little trouble getting it to shoot cast, but hey the journey is the thing.
Do yourself a favor and read the stickies at the top of the forum. They contain a lot of good information.
When patching for smokeless cartridges there has to be something to keep the bullet from squirting out of the wrap. Hence the knurlling of the jacketed bullet. Grease groove bullets work great for smokeless paper patch. Smokeless powders don't explode like black does, and therefore don't bump the bullet up like black does.
I might also suggest using tracing paper for your wrap. It is a little tougher and is easier to wrap with (for me).
Brodie

[Good Cheer]

1990-1993 I lived near a gunsmith who had apprenticed at Ackley's shop. Reckon he'd probably tried just about everything at one time or another. Once upon a time he said I could paper patch jacketed for a project I was puzzling over. I never tried patching jacketed but I remember he said I could make it work.

[longbow]

Ross Seyfried wrote an article many years ago about PP'ing "J" bullets mostly for odd calibers. He reported good results.

His trick was to roll the "J" bullets between two coarse files to "knurl" them to give the paper something to grip, copper being hard and smooth.

I lent my magazine to a friend who never returned it but recently someone on this site sent me a PDF of that article. I should have it saved somewhere. Let me know if you are interested and I'll see if I can find it.

Longbow

[OverMax]

Just saying;
Could try knurling with a flat file?

[Lead pot]

You can get the diameter you need with just a simple diamond knurl.

[longbow]

I wouldn't have thought kurling would raise diameter that much.

I made a knurling tool for smooth cast boolits so I could tumble lube them. In lead alloy the diameter coul dbe increased by quite a bit so I made a small mould then knurled to size and that worked fine.

Later I found some Federal .303 British factory rounds were shooting poorly so pulled boolits and mic'd. They were 0.311" or 0.312" but definitely smaller than my rifle's 0.314" groove diameter. So I tried knurling them up and got about 0.003" and that worked well but I didn't see 0.008"+ increase. Pretty impressive.

What knurling tool did you use?

Longbow

[Chill Wills]

I remember that Ross Seyfried article and have it here. Would just have to narrow the time down to find it. Back in the 1990's I am sure.
Anyway, based on his info I used .338" Jac bullets patched to work in my Winchester 71. The .338" bullets patched to .348" and shot with full accuracy for the rifle. Velocity was near what you could expect from a full safe load. In other words, "cooking" along for a large bullet.

348 200gr Hornady flat point were tough to find and pricey. Barnes were not considered. 225gr and 250gr Hornady spire points paperpatched after the noses were turned down to a pleasing flat worked great!

[Lead pot]

I wouldn't have thought kurling would raise diameter that much.

I made a knurling tool for smooth cast boolits so I could tumble lube them. In lead alloy the diameter coul dbe increased by quite a bit so I made a small mould then knurled to size and that worked fine.

Later I found some Federal .303 British factory rounds were shooting poorly so pulled boolits and mic'd. They were 0.311" or 0.312" but definitely smaller than my rifle's 0.314" groove diameter. So I tried knurling them up and got about 0.003" and that worked well but I didn't see 0.008"+ increase. Pretty impressive.

What knurling tool did you use?

Longbow

Longbow.

I use the Corbin knurling tool http://www.corbins.com/hct-2.htm One could most likely use file but it would have to be a double cut aluminum file to get any sort of results. Even then it would be hard to control the depth of the pattern that regulated the diameter change.

The amount of diameter change is regulated by how deep the diamond pattern is impregnated into the bullet shank and how aggressive the pattern is on the rollers. You cant compress lead or copper, all you can do is make it flow to another location.

[Three44s]

You might look at this thread ........ a search pulled up a number of threads and this was the only one I looked at because the late member Swagerman was the OP and I knew him from another forum as a caster of quite talent.


http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...bigger-boolits

Three 44s

[longbow]

Lead pot:

I kinda figured it was a Corbin tool you were using. In fact I don't know of other commercial boolit/bullet knurling tools. I made my knurling tool but was not able to get that much diameter increase in jacketed bullets. Possibly not as deep a knurl or just not enough pressure.

The smoothside boolits from my push out moulds knurl nicely and work very well tumble lubed.

Yes, I doubt knurling with a file would result in much diameter increase in a jacketed bullet largely due to lack of pressure to swage the surface. Files can be used on lead boolits to raise the surface a bit for tumble lubing but in my experience the knurling tool works much better. The files will roughen the surface of a jacketed bullet enough to give paper patching something to grip for those that do not have a knurler.

Thanks for the response.

Longbow

[Lead pot]

Longbow:

I use the knurling tool for several purposes. That jacketed bullet I ran through twice to get it to the diameter I wanted and doing that the diamond impregnations didn't get back in the first spin and this flattened the originals some.
I mostly knurl to get the bullet to the diameter I need for certain use I want to accomplish or if I want to use a bullet designed for PP for a GG use. The knurls actually hold more lube then a 4 groove plus it covers beyond the shank up onto the ogive to lube that portion when the bullet's nose gets set back when the charge goes off.
These bullets are for the .44-90 bn Sharps and with the knurl I used they increased the PP bullet from .432" to .447" for a GG purpose.