Let's talk 7.62x54r

[beemer]

The Finn M39 is probably the least fussy cast shooter I have, the Lee 185 will shoot decent with most any reasonable cast load. The bore slugs .312 and the boolit is almost .314,that helps.

I bought a M44 10-12 years ago for $85 that was an unfired Russian made in 1948. I sold it shortly after to a guy that wanted a short brush gun. It came back not long ago minus the bayo lug but still in good shape with only a few minor dings on the stock. I have considered replacing the lug but have read that it is a tuff job to do properly, besides I kind of like it without it. The bore in that rifle is as nice as any rifle I have ever owned.

The biggest problem I have loading for the Russian is that the dies I have overwork the neck. I bought an extra collet for my 303 Brit collet neck sizer. I shortened the collet and made a larger mandrel to size for .314 boolit.

Dave

[747 captain]

All of my mosin nagant shot terrible with all variations of fast bullets

[LAGS]

Tomorrow I am taking out both of my Finn 28-30s.
I bought them both 30 years ago, and one I never fired.
The other I modified and it is the most accurate sporting rifle that I own.
The stock 28-30 was just fitted with a Scout scope on a base that I picked up just a few weeks ago after seeing a thread on them on this forum.
Well it is a mount for the M-39, but it is the same rear sight base on this rifle.
I am going to start off with a variety of factory Russian ammo, and since this one is a D throat Sako Barrel, I am going to try it with some 202 gr or 13 Gram factory ammo I picked up years ago.
On the Sporting M28-30 that does not have the D chamber, the 202 gr slugs are digging into the rifling so I didnt shoot much of this case of ammo so far.
To shoot it comfortably in the Non D barrel, I would have to set the bullet back so the cartridge had a overall length of 73 mm.
After this weekend, I will be shooting mostly cast in the stock 28-30.
The sporter modified rifle really likes them for target practice.

[LAGS]

The m28-30 with the scout Scope mount worked perfectly.
But that Russian LVE 202 gr ammo did the same thing that it did in the Non D chambered rifle.
There was metal extruded back around the firing pin on the primer.
With the other rifle, I thought it was because the throat was too short for that heavy bullet.
I think it is just, this round is just too hot, or I will check and see what diameter the bullets actually are.
If I am trying to push a .312 or .313 slug thru a .310 or the other .3105 bore, that could raise the pressure considerably.

[Larry Gibson]

"If I am trying to push a .312 or .313 slug thru a .310 or the other .3105 bore, that could raise the pressure considerably."

In measuring the pressure of such I have found that using milsurp steel jacketed with a hardened steel insert (AP bullets) do raise pressures "considerably". However with steel jacketed and copper bullets with lead cores .002 - .002 over size do not raise the pressures appreciably. The swaging down occurs in the first bearing length of bullet travel in the bore when the pressure is still low.

It is very wise to work up the load if using oversized bullets and not to just substitute the larger bullet for the normal sized one. I'm referring to bullets of the same weight of course.

[LAGS]

These are LVE Russian Factory soft tipped Hunting loads with a 13 gram projectile.
They have shown the same excessive primer sledging around the firing pins in all the rifles I have shot them in.
I even made sure that the hole for the firing pin was not oversized or the pin too small.
I even changed the firing pin spring to a heavier one.
My next option is to pull them down , and use the existing powder to work up a load.
I have a Spam can of them left ,so I think it is 200 or 300 left.

[Larry Gibson]

"They have shown the same excessive primer sledging around the firing pins in all the rifles I have shot them in."

That indicates a couple potential problems; to high a pressure or to soft a primer cup.

If boxer primed pull a bullet, dump the powder in your scale pan, deprime and reprime with a WLR or #34 primer, put powder back in the case and reseat the bullet. Test fire. If all ok then it's the primers. If it's too much pressure there should be other indications also.

If Berdan primed then pull the bullets and reload with a 5% less charge of the same powder.

[LAGS]

That is kind of what I was going to do.
They are Berdan Copper washed Steel Cases.
So I will probably just knock them down 5% when I pull them down.
If that works good , I will salvage the powder and bullets to work up some loads in Norma Boxer primed Cases.
The Berdan cases willl then get loaded with RL7 and a 316-299 for one of the rifles with a larger bore.
But I may try some of the pulled down bullets in one of my Lee Enfield.
They like heavy bullets.

[Larry Gibson]

Sounds like a plan.....

[pacomdiver]

i had one of the 1895 winchester russian muskets for about a year, it shot like a dream and was a blast to shoot and was neat when fliping the action open, it worked like butter. i used the same loads i was running thru my PU snipers and it was plenty accurate enough to hit the 6" steel plate at 100 with the stock sights

[res45]

"They have shown the same excessive primer sledging around the firing pins in all the rifles I have shot them in."

That indicates a couple potential problems; to high a pressure or to soft a primer cup.

If boxer primed pull a bullet, dump the powder in your scale pan, deprime and reprime with a WLR or #34 primer, put powder back in the case and reseat the bullet. Test fire. If all ok then it's the primers. If it's too much pressure there should be other indications also.

If Berdan primed then pull the bullets and reload with a 5% less charge of the same powder.

It worked for me. Many years ago when I started reloading 54r you could get bullets but reloadadable brass was almost impossible to come by unless you wanted to pay a buck per. round or more for Norma factory ammo. I had plenty of brass case Bulgarian surplus ammo but it was really hot stuff so I broke down a few rds. weighed each and averaged out the powder charge and reduced it by a few grains. The results on targer as well as on the primers were pretty dramatic.

Factory load.


Reduced load


I also Mexican Matched the factory ammo by replacing the FMJ bullet with a Speer .311" Hot Cor SP bullet to make hunting ammo. The pulled 147 gr. FMj were later used in plinking ammo in my SKS rifles.

[straphanger]

I have an original 91-30 sniper w the original PU numbered to the rifle that I acquired years ago ( it was an early CAI import). The bore is beautiful, perfect crown and the scope is crystal clear albeit primitive. The trigger pull needs a lanyard, although it is better with the $4 ebay return spring fix. I also find the head high up scope location difficult to manage and haven't been able to do much better than 2" + groups with jacketed reloads at 100 yds.

Recently, I acquired a Ideal 311413 mold that casts at .314+ with the range scrap lead I am using. So I decided to try these sized at .313 lubed with the improved NRA formula lube. Didn't have the correct top punch, so I used the one for 311284. This rounds the point a bit and bumps the ogive diameter up abt .001 ahead of the crimp groove. I used a Lyman 311R M die for the case necks with the short M die.

My research on 311413 wasn't very encouraging, but it was the only .313 sized cast I had, so I decided to give it a try. My most recent effort was with 10 gr Red in Dot, Federal primers, Win brass, and the GC bullet seated out to the edge of the top grease groove. Using the PU at 100 I got 10 in 3.4", but 9 landed in 2.25", and 7 in 1.65"...the defecit is probably due to the shooter, not the rifle or the load.

I am encouraged by these results. Looking forward to trying again next spring. Winter in MI is close, and I am a southerner by birth.

[smokeywolf]

straphanger, the 311413 doesn't usually yield good accuracy above 1600 FPS.

[Larry Gibson]

res45

That Bulgarian brass is an excellent candidate for conversion to SR boxer primers. Photo shows progression of conversion left to right with case on right primed with a Remington 7 1/2 primer. 2nd and 3rd photos shows cases that have now been loaded 10 times with 28.5 gr 4895 + a Dacron filler under a GB C314-291 cast 170 gr bullet.

Attachment 208368

Attachment 208369Attachment 208370

[LAGS]

I still have a Spam Can of 300 Chinese Brass cases Berdan primed stuff.
I save those cases and have converted some of them before.
I also sent 100 of them to another member who was insistant on Converting Steel Cased berdan ammo.
I told him, the Steel cases would only last one to three reloads, so why waste your time, and wear on your dies.
Never heard back from him on how his project went.

[vzerone]

I still have a Spam Can of 300 Chinese Brass cases Berdan primed stuff.
I save those cases and have converted some of them before.
I also sent 100 of them to another member who was insistant on Converting Steel Cased berdan ammo.
I told him, the Steel cases would only last one to three reloads, so why waste your time, and wear on your dies.
Never heard back from him on how his project went.

Lags that makes me wonder what if you anneal steel cases would they last longer? Second question, what if you annealed the whole case, would it in it's softer state be stronger then a brass case?

[LAGS]

I know people who tried to anneal steel cases for reloading.
They were very disappointed.
The cases did get softer, and did not split as soon.
But trying to resize steel isnt the same as how Brass resizes.
And when the cases split, they were not just confined to splits in the neck like before Annealing.
They split the full length or right at the shoulder or the case head seperated.
I am sure if they played with their experiment more , they could find a process that works a little better.
But for me, it is not worth my Time , my Safety, or risk to damage to my rifle to play with steel cases.
And that is not to mention the time you put into each case to convert them to Boxer Primers.

I deligate the converted Brass cases to cast loads.
I pull them down, then reload them with a cast bullet, then once fired, I save the cases for tinkering with later.
The Bullets and powder get reloaded into Norma or Winchester cases that I have.
But the Primer on these old surplus ammo is the weak point in their reliability or accuracy.
But the primers work just fine the one time for Cast Loads for plinking
The Chinese cases are OK but as mentioned by Mr Gibson, there are better brass Berdan primed cases out there.
But trying to find the ammo at a good price is sometimes a challenge.
The Two spam cans of the Chinese were purchased 30 years ago from Brickley Trading Company when I lived in California, just before they banned the importation.

[mac1911]

I'm,going to give my mosin 91/30 one last go around before it gets banished to the far corners.
I'm looking for a good load for 200 yard cmp vintage match. I need consistent sub 3moa I don't think that's a lot to ask for.
I had decent luck with trail boss but out to 200 yards it opened up a lot.
Was getting nice 1" clusters at 50 yards.
Then at 100 it was getting sloppy and just Holding the 9 ring. 200 it was splashing all 4 corners and everything in between.

[vzerone]

I'm,going to give my mosin 91/30 one last go around before it gets banished to the far corners.
I'm looking for a good load for 200 yard cmp vintage match. I need consistent sub 3moa I don't think that's a lot to ask for.
I had decent luck with trail boss but out to 200 yards it opened up a lot.
Was getting nice 1" clusters at 50 yards.
Then at 100 it was getting sloppy and just Holding the 9 ring. 200 it was splashing all 4 corners and everything in between.

That's a mighty tall order from splashing all 4 corners and everything inbetween to 3 inch groups.

[Larry Gibson]

mac1911

I use the 314299 cast of #2 alloy, sized .314, lubed with 2500+, Hornady GC seated over 28.5 gr 4895 with a Dacron filler. Runds 1850 fps with excellent accuracy out of my MNs. I use that load in CBA matches and do fairly well, even at 200 yards.

100 yards;

Attachment 208404

200 Yards;

Attachment 208405