Thanks to all. I will try these ideas.
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Thanks to all. I will try these ideas.
There have been bad reports about the reliability of some of the old Kynoch .577/.450 ammunition that has come on the market recently through auction sites. It may have been due to bad storage,, and not applicable to all of it, or it may not.
when you do the next cast, get some modelling clay and fill the extractor groove and any places the cerrosafe will flow
my first time with a rolling block, the cerro lowed into the extractor groove and threads on the barrel
I had to pull the barrel to get all of it out
I see that Kynoch for sale sometimes, most of it looks pretty bad. Doubt the brass would be reusable the way it looks. I think most who own a Martini reload vs buying ammo.
I got out my brass the other day, been meaning to mess with it. When I first bought it, I was not a caster, just used 458 bullets in it. Obviously not going to get much accuracy that way. More of it shoots so good enough. I know a bit more since then. Guess I will have to paper patch some stuff up. Ream out the neck sizer I had been using. I cut down a 45-70 die so it would even use a 458 bullet. Will have to open it up for a better fit. The expander that comes with Lee dies is a bit big, so will have to make another one to fit the rifles. One issue that comes up is using proper 577/450 brass vs converted 24ga. The brass is thinner on the 24ga so throws off sizing and expanding if using the same bullet.
I've been using purchased brass. Not cheap, but re-doing the 24 ga didn't look to save much, and I expect the brass to be very re-usable. No spraying it all over like those pesky modern guns.
I decide to cast my bore before settling on a bullet, which led to the above thread. One forgets one is supposed to drain the swamp when one is busy with the d*mn gators. At this point I may just load up some .458 bullets and let them bounce down the bore. Nobody offers anything in the 460-ish range; even molds that size are not common. I do know a machinist....
From one crisis to the next. Amazing the redcoats even beat the Zulus....
The 24 ga is considerably cheaper. Last actual brass I bought was dang near $5ea. The 24ga is closer to $1 ea. Yea at first I messed up about half of them, so $2.50 ea. But got it down to maybe ruin 4 out of a box of 25. So closer to $1.25 a case. Not like I need a whole pile of them. I have some I formed and have yet to load. Use some rubber washers in the bottom to take up space use less powder.
Accurate molds probably has a suitable mold or could order one the way you want. 458 bullets are near useless, I could hear them hitting the backstop, but actually hitting a target at any range forget it. My lee 405gr hollow base mold casts to 460. It would be considerable effort to fit some dies to that round, just to see how it does. Mine are made in Nepal so have smaller bores than the British made ones. I am not sure how well that hollow base would do. As we usually put grease cookies and wads under the bullet in a martini so doubt it would slug up as intended. So Im just gonna size them to 459, then paper patch.
I've got some of that Magtech 24ga. which might be the last brass I buy from the USA, since changes in export control made it much more difficult to export rifle and pistol cases. It weighs 220gr., as against 303gr. for a narrower but longer Bertram.450 x 3¼in. Nitro-Express case.
I may be part of a minority, as I will use it for my 24ga Pieper shotgun. I think it should also work for the Snider. But I have heard reports of it splitting distressingly early at the rim if used for even full black powder .577/.450 loads. A rubber washer or cup, probably epoxied in place, should help prevent that. But if one comes out and lurks in the bore ahead of the next bullet, it could be dangerous.
there are 460ish and plus sizes out there. Ranch Dog ran a bunch. NEI. Post an add in the "WANTED TO BUY" section. I have a couple molds in that range, NO not for sale. I do not have any cast up. Nice to get a 100 or so to try. 458 will generally work with lighter side loads, or soft alloy and black or pistol powders to kick them up to size. Or PP.
I always check for the washers, not had one come out yet. Not exactly easy to get out when you want to. 2 of them in the bottom reduces the BP charge from 110gr to something like 70gr. I have never actually seen a 24 ga shotgun, but have to presume they exist or magtech wouldn't make the brass.
VICTORY!
The alligators are all dead, and swamp-draining can resume.
Now, to review the correct Ceerosafe casting tips: I shall re-read all the above tips, and let you know how it goes.
For the terminally curious, apparently the paper toweling plug had absorbed enough cerrosafe to really wedge tight. I finally decided to fully strip the barrel, stock and all, and I heated the plugged section (having identified its location by probing.) I was concerned about hurting the barrel, but paper burns at 459 or so; steel can take more heat than that. When it started smoking I picked the (horizontal) barrel up and dropped a wood dowel in. One tap and a mess of cerrosafe and paper fell out.
I swabbed the barrel with patches, then re-oiled. Seems to be undamaged!
Now, to cast again.
This is an interesting idea. I had thought of using compressed air at 125 PSI but your approach makes more pressure. Have you tried in? I could see where it might work, or kill someone.Originally Posted by John Boy
If I recall correctly, Dixie Gun Works will make you bullet molds for any caliber you want.
This approach is excessively interesting. Attempts at world record high diving have reached heights at which they almost always result in serious injury, the reason, outside the realms of applied psychology, being that liquids are solid when you hit them at high enough speed. I think the odds are in favour of everything working out quite all right, but it isn't like there aren't easier and cleaner ways of solving the problem. We have heard plenty here about the ringing of chambers when a small charge is ignited in a large space behind the bullet. You don't get much smaller and larger than your suggestion, or much heavier than 1370gr. of water.
As long as you can get the forend off, enough heat to solve the problem will be perfectly harmless. You don't even need to burn or char the paper. Enough heat to melt the Cerrosafe traces and make the paper bone-dry should do it. You probably don't want to heat paper which has been soaked through in an unsuccessful attempt to blow it out, and certainly not to leave it that way for a few hours. Other methods are to drill a piece of dowel and insert a long wood-screw, or epoxy a piece of 7/16 or 15/32in. K&S model-maker's brass tubing onto a dowel, and file it to two hooked teeth. If it doesn't cut through the paper it will get enough grip to drag it out. If it doesn't get enough grip to drag it out, it will cut through it.
Followed by failure. I hate Cerrosafe.
I plugged the barrel with one patch on the end of a cleaning rod, greased the chamber, and carefully poured in just enough cerrosafe to fill it w/o going over. I waited five minute. Stuck fast. Had to melt it out.
I have bore gages and other inside measuring tools, from my engine-rebuilding work. I'll use those. If I keep heating and effing with this barrel I'm going to ruin it.
I've never found chamber casting to be the walk in the park the Gunsmithing books imply, either.
I start with a barreled receiver, at most. The chamber is oiled, well to excessively, and plugged with a cleaning rod, the top of the jag exposed and the shank wrapped with string. I mark the handle end to show how deep the rod has to go in the barrel. I never had a heat gun and never found a hair dryer that got hot enough, so I've always used steam.
Meanwhile, the Cerrosafe or Wood's metal (or whatever it is) is melting in a small container in a separate pot of boiling water. When the barreled receiver is good and hot, I quickly transfer it to the vise, vertically, with the cleaning rod handle on the floor so the depth mark is at the proper place. I carefully pour in the chamber cast metal. Plugging the extractor cut with clay is a good idea, but the surface tension of the metal generally allows me at least a section of the rim to measure depth without spilling into the extractor cut.
As soon as that "button" of metal looks frosty, the vise is loosened and the barreled receiver pressed or tapped down on the cleaning rod to get the casting out. I find the more thoroughly the chamber is oiled and the quicker the removal process is begun, the better. A sticky casting can sometimes be loosened by heating of the receiver, held horizontally, while pushing in the cleaning rod. A localized smear from heating or occasional bubble caused by oil or air does not make the casting useless for measurements. The point is to get it out as soon as possible and then wait for it to come to its proper dimensions. If it is hopeless, it can be melted out and tried again. It won't harm the barrel or receiver if you do it over and over, but it is exasperating, no?
Some military chambers, like that on my 03 Springfield, were reamed hastily and have circular reaming marks. Your Martini may be the same way. They are not bad enough to stick shells in the chamber, but they would ensure a mechanical lock on a chamber casting. If I had to chamber cast my Springfield, the technique of judicious warming while pushing on the cleaning rod would be what I would use. The casting, even if imperfect, should allow the measurements you need somewhere in the body.
When I see pictures of those perfect casts, I wonder how many tries it took to get them.
Have never used cerrosafe, don't know how hard it is, so I don't know how hard it would be to shear it if tool marks or rust pits are holding it in the chamber. My only chamber casts were done with sulfur about 40 years ago.
It the cast is locked by roughness, I would use a solid steel rod, just smaller than bore diameter with 2 wraps of tape every six inches along it's length to try to drive out the cast. If two firm blows with a 2-3 pound hammer did not get it out, then I would melt it out. Next I would polish the chamber for 30-40 seconds with 320 grit wet or dry sand paper and try again. If the cast is still hard to remove, I would set the barrel back 1 thread and re-cut the chamber.
Try a wax for release agent. I have used Pam cooking spray ion a bind. Beeswax or even bulletlube worked into a patch and ran into the chamber to coat then a dry patch to even out coating. insert plug from muzzle so as not to disturb this coating and pour
Water from the muzzle end will break down the twel to mush, then push out with a jag on your rod.
Let Your mercy, O LORD, be upon us, Just as we hope in You.
(Psa 33:22)
“Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” -John Adams
I use a .466 diameter bullet in my 577-450,
Mike
Last edited by skeettx; 10-09-2016 at 07:17 PM.
NRA Benefactor 2004USAF RET 1971-95
A good source for your .577/.450 M-H bullets molds is X-Ring Services, in Spokane WA. They offer molds for two styles of bullet designed specifically for the .577/.450 M-H; #47-475XR is a .470" diameter & 475gn grease groove bullet, & the #45-505XR is a smooth-sided paper patch design measuring .458" & 505gns.
They also offer unprimed cases formed from MagTech 24g.
Contact info is xringservices(at)yahoo(dot)com
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