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Thread: 1885 High Wall for cowboy action side matches

  1. #21
    Boolit Master Bad Ass Wallace's Avatar
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    The Pedersoli Hiwall comes in 2 models the "Classic" and "Sporting". There is a big difference in stock dimensions with the Classic model being much higher at the comb and more suitable to precision prone work, than shooting offhand with the Sporting model.

    I have developed loads for mine using a 220gn (0.380) , 260gn (0.380) and a Paul Jones 375gn. The 1:12 will shoot them all with good accuracy.

    Last edited by Bad Ass Wallace; 09-24-2016 at 06:36 PM.
    Hold Still Varmint; while I plugs Yer!

  2. #22
    Boolit Master
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    You know as you price these guns and add sights you could pick up a nice Browning BPCR in 40/65 with a badger barrel and targets sights for the same price. I just got one with Baldwin soule for $1700.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiwall55 View Post
    You know as you price these guns and add sights you could pick up a nice Browning BPCR in 40/65 with a badger barrel and targets sights for the same price. I just got one with Baldwin soule for $1700.
    Wow, you got a steal on that one if it is in nice shape. The last one I saw on gunbroker went for over $2100.00 and it wasn't all original. I recently sold mine for $1800.00 without sights to help finance a CPA and since the buyer was going to put a MVA scope on it.

    I noticed Gunbroker has a 45-70 listed for $1950.00 in case anyone is interested.
    Last edited by LynC2; 09-25-2016 at 10:47 AM. Reason: Additional information
    NRA Endowment member, TSRA Life member, Distinguished Rifleman, Viet Nam Vet

  4. #24
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    Rusty Parker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marlinman93 View Post
    You can always shoot lighter bullets in faster twist barrels, so a fast twist gives you options of the light or heavy bullets. But a slow twist gives you no option of a heavy bullet, and you'll be limited to the light bullets, and closer distance shooting.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bad *** Wallace View Post
    The Pedersoli Hiwall comes in 2 models the "Classic" and "Sporting". There is a big difference in stock dimensions with the Classic model being much higher at the comb and more suitable to precision prone work, than shooting offhand with the Sporting model.

    I have developed loads for mine using a 220gn (0.380) , 260gn (0.380) and a Paul Jones 375gn. The 1:12 will shoot them all with good accuracy.

    thanks for this info, this certainly helps push the decision toward the faster twist rifles. I've only ever had one rifle I couldn't deal with in terms of the twist rate being wrong, that was a CZ .223 bolt action that is still in the back of the safe where I buried it in frustration some years ago. but this helps a lot, thanks.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiwall55 View Post
    You know as you price these guns and add sights you could pick up a nice Browning BPCR in 40/65 with a badger barrel and targets sights for the same price. I just got one with Baldwin soule for $1700.
    Quote Originally Posted by LynC2 View Post
    Wow, you got a steal on that one if it is in nice shape. The last one I saw on gunbroker went for over $2100.00 and it wasn't all original. I recently sold mine for $1800.00 without sights to help finance a CPA and since the buyer was going to put a MVA scope on it.

    I noticed Gunbroker has a 45-70 listed for $1950.00 in case anyone is interested.
    have to agree with Lyn here, I haven't seen anything like that price for 40/65, either available or perusing the sold listings on several of the well-known gun sales sites. There is a 40-65 available right now at the Cabelas in Tulalips Washington for $1999. But I'm still thinking that that's too much gun at that price for my immediate needs, which is primarily shooting offhand at fairly largish steel plates at 100 yards. If I fall in love with single shots, falling blocks, and the 1885 in general, then there's always going to be room for more rifles in different calibers and configurations later.

    actually, just checking GB right now, looks like there is a used 45-70 in very nice shape in VA for $1350 in case anyone is interested.

  6. #26
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    Just a quick update, I pulled the trigger on a nice used Win Miroku traditional hunter from a member here. Good price, proven shooter, this will get me on paper and on the gongs at 100 yds right away. In the end I was really torn about the shooter-grade original at $2k, but realized there were just too many unknowns about the barrel with that gun, plus I'd have had to get the sights right away and figure out bore size, molds, dies, etc. which I don't necessarily have to do with the Miroku. As luck has it, right after committing to the Miroku that original sold on GB, so these things have a wary of working out.

    Anyway, thanks again to all of you for your advice in helping me think through the decision. I'm sure I'll be back with reloading questions, etc., but for now, thanks again.
    RP

  7. #27
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    Okay, another update for this thread and as I mentioned in the other thread I started last week about Shiloh rifles. I saw a Browning BPCR in 40/65 come up on GB yesterday for $1600 with brass and dies. Checking back on this thread and mindful of Highwall55's and LynC2's advice in this thread, I went ahead and bought it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hiwall55 View Post
    You know as you price these guns and add sights you could pick up a nice Browning BPCR in 40/65 with a badger barrel and targets sights for the same price. I just got one with Baldwin soule for $1700.
    Quote Originally Posted by LynC2 View Post
    Wow, you got a steal on that one if it is in nice shape. The last one I saw on gunbroker went for over $2100.00 and it wasn't all original. I recently sold mine for $1800.00 without sights to help finance a CPA and since the buyer was going to put a MVA scope on it.

    I noticed Gunbroker has a 45-70 listed for $1950.00 in case anyone is interested.
    Sadly this will put my Shiloh search off temporarily, but the good thing about the highwall is how well it has worked out for me so far in SASS side matches. The Miroku 38-55 I bought last year has been terrific to use in our local (timed) events, where the speed of the highwall really helps a bit. Until I was sidelined this summer with knee surgery, my long distance events were really helping my scores.

    Hopefully the Browning will continue the trend and enable me to expand my range and start thinking about bpcr silhouette shooting. We don't have a whole lot of that locally, but there are matches within a half day's drive in several directions.

    Still working on getting the Shiloh Sharps, but thought this Browning rifle was too good to pass up. Will let everyone know how it shoots when it arrives.

  8. #28
    Boolit Master Bad Ass Wallace's Avatar
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    Rusty,
    You have a bargin there! If you see my previous post I have a Pedersoli Sharps in 40/65 with a 6X Malcolm scope and the darn thing is very accurate.
    Hold Still Varmint; while I plugs Yer!

  9. #29
    Boolit Master
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    Rusty, the Uberti '85 HiWall Deluxe comes with DS triggers - checkered and a pistol grip. Uberti will use the same wood for both models. The wood you saw on mine in the post ... Cimarron told me they have never seen a nicer wood on any of their models
    Regards
    John

  10. #30
    Boolit Master

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    The 38-55 is a great cartridge and can be very versatile. If you can find one with a 1-12 twist barrel it will shoot up to 365 grn bullets well out to 500-600 yds. I have a C Sharps high wall in 38-55 with a 1-12 twist McGowen barrel on it and the local rams arnt safe at all at 500 yds. I would look for a rifle with the 1-2 twist rate and load accordingly. A 250-365 grn bullet should perform great depending on the range

  11. #31
    Boolit Master

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    If you're playing games that are timed events, an 1885 has fewer steps to run than anything save a Martini, so it has that going for it. While the '74 Sharps ARE cool, they're pretty inefficient ergonomically - especially with the addition of DST's and external adjustment scopes that have to be pulled back in the rings.

    As to caliber, one question is whether or not your bullet has to actually knock anything down. The faster twist .38-55's with 300 grainers are supposedly fairly successful at this - the lighter options, not necessarily so much.

    Have played with originals - they shoot really well - even when to all appearances they shouldn't

    Have just begun to play with a .32-40 Miroku - it shoots really well. . .like, SCARY well, and we're only on about chapter 2 of load development.

    The Italian clones . . . have been very impressed with some of their stuff, but have yet to try their High Walls.
    WWJMBD?

    Buried in molds until covered with mold.

  12. #32
    Boolit Master
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    Just curious. Why is the .38-55 not good for longer ranges, ie, 700-1000yd? Wind drift? What is muzzle velocity compared to the .45calibers?

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by charlie b View Post
    Just curious. Why is the .38-55 not good for longer ranges, ie, 700-1000yd? Wind drift? What is muzzle velocity compared to the .45calibers?
    This brings up a couple decent points worth discussing.

    Action strength is the least of your worries with the Browning/Winchester High Wall, but. . .

    The .38-55 is typically of a diameter not seen in jacketed flavors. It's a caster's cartridge, and even with the advantages of smokeless and gas checks, the material of choice limits velocity somewhat. The burn characteristics of black was the velocity limiter of old. Those speed limitations apply fairly closely to big and smaller bores alike. Given roughly equal shapes, and roughly equal speeds, big and heavy carries better.

    All that said, with the strength of a modern High Wall coupled with gas checks and hard alloys, the old Ballard and Stevens speed limitations for the .38-55 could be chucked handily out the window, and I don't doubt that the grand old tackdriver would be capable of some truly impressive things.
    WWJMBD?

    Buried in molds until covered with mold.

  14. #34
    Boolit Master
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    Yep, I knew that given similar velocities sectional density remains king.

    I kinda forgot about the lead bullet limitations on velocity. That does kinda restrict things a bit when at the top end.

    No, don't want to go the jacketed route. Paper patch maybe? So if I got enough 3F powder in there with a PP bullet would it blow up the action? Yeah, I like to do things the hard way.

  15. #35
    Boolit Master

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    Actually with these cartridges in Black Powder the Black Powder also is a limiting factor as to velocity. Even a case full of 3 f compressed to seat a bullet is only going to give around 1350-1400fps.

  16. #36
    Boolit Master
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    Ok, so that makes more sense.

  17. #37
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    Thought I'd include a photo of the rifle which showed up last week. Have picked up the Lyman 410663 mold and the SAECO 740, but also bought 50 of each pre-cast from Montana Bullet Works to get me going. Eager to load some up and take it to the range.

    Click image for larger version. 

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check