The saga of cast boolets in 222 Remington.

[runfiverun]

you don't need a fancy caliber for this stuff.
the 222 and 223 case will handle slow or fast really easily.

castalott:
do you think Jared could cut that 40gr boolit with a lube groove?
and at 225-6?
I'm looking for a project to get me going with Hi-Tek, and this would be perfect in my 223 V/T.
I could make and coat and plunk 100yd targets, it would also allow me some freedom of use in the field too.

[castalott]

I would guess that Jared could do anything... He pretty well reads minds... I just ordered an 8mm mold that is exactly what you are talking about...lube groove and all..


i have a picture but don't know how to send it from my email to here...


Send Jared an email.... He seems a friendly but very busy type...

Dale

[runfiverun]

thank's Dale.
I should still have his E-mail.

[castalott]

A comparison of the boolets to try so far... I expect the 61 grain one is too long to work in my 1 in 14 twist.... but you never know until you try... If it would run 2 moa out to 200 yards at 1800 fps...well... I'd be tickled

[castalott]

...and to bore you with one more picture.... a comparison of the meplats



The WFN I wanted to use as my garden patrol load. I originally cast them soft for use at 22 velocity. These I cast of WW and "I hope" will shoot at 1500-1800 fps... and I also "hope" the big meplat will make humane kills. I see this as strictly a short range boolet....

Dale

[w30wcf]

castalott,
Nice work! Thank you for sharing.
Question? Will the as cast .228" bullet fit into an as fired case neck with a bit of resistance? If so, you might want to try that to see how that works.

Some years ago I shot some Lyman 225438's and NEI 45 gr bullets in ww alloy in a .22 Hornet with 2.2/231 which, as I recall, produced around 1,300 f.p.s. I shot them without gas checks and at 50 yards, they would shoot into 1/2" pretty consistently. Fun! Fun! Fun!

w30wcf

[runfiverun]

actually that would be really nice.
I had a 7 mauser set up like that.
just poke out the primer and load the case, it never went through a sizing step.
I probably loaded those same 50 cases 30-40 times before the wife got bored with the rifle and swapped it for a 30-06.
bent me all sorts of out of shape.

I know the 22-250 and 220 swift rifles I have here will accept a 227 boolit without too much drama.
I see a little scuffing on the boolit in the ball seat area at that diameter but would have no problem shooting them at that size.

[castalott]

howdy w30wcf !

I just tried the unsized .228 WFN in 5 fired cases (Don't know if fired in my CZ or Ray's 700) but none would fit.

The 40 grain boolet unsized and coated unsized is a easy/good fit...

The 61 grain boolet unsized 'wants' to start but won't go in...


well...the limiting factor here is my shooting ability...old eyes you know

I have had more fun with this than anything else in a long time. I'm not broke but it appeals to the frugal side of me. 20 pounds of lead seems to last a long time casting...

And just as an aside comment... My NOE WFN mold has now made 2000 bullets ( looks brand new yet).... 2000 jacketed bullets would be about $240 to my door..... These molds are making me money.... That's what I tell myself anyway...

Thank You for your Comments and Interest...

Dale

[castalott]

runfiverun.. What kind of load did you use with the 7mm Mauser?


I don't think my CZ has a throat.... LOL

I have even thought about a bullet with a band on it. You know... a band that sticks out where the case mouth is. That would only give 1 seating depth but the base was a snug fit in the fired case and the band stopped it going any deeper... That load could be used in the magazine and make it up the feeding ramp with no problems... Is this called a 'German" bullet design?
Can't remember..


I would send a few fired cases and some of my alloy to the mold maker... Let him decide the diameter of the base and the diameter of the band.

Is this a crazy idea or what?

Dale

[w30wcf]

Dale,
Nope not a crazy idea at all. Some of the early Ideal .30 Caliber plain base bullets had an oversized forward band to act as a "stop". Kind of a long heeled type bullet so to speak.....although the heel was at least the diameter of the groove. The question is though, did the oversized band cause any issues(?)

Perhaps if you were to size the base of the bullet to .225" and leave the forward portion .228"..........

I know what you mean about aging eyes. Scopes do help!

2000 bullets...you've been busy! Yes, those molds are making you money.....

w30wcf

[runfiverun]

I had 2 good loads.
16grs of 2400 and 24grs of imr 4895.
it didn't seem to care if I used the rcbs 145gr or the 168gr version.
I think the 145 was a bit more accurate overall.
it was one of the best small game rifles ever with the 24gr load and a small flat filed on the 145's nose.
rabbit's, rock chuck's, a couple of fox, and a yote all went down to that load.
[with it's 139gr jacketed load it was a great little deer rifle too]

the was a synthetic stocked and blued Charles Daley, but didn't have the huge throat many of the 7mm have, it was more like a smaller version of a newer rifles 308 throat.
I was [and am] still on the lookout for the older lyman mold that NOE makes now,
since my Ackley rifle has the same throat.

[castalott]

Here are a few rejects in casting with Arsenal 225-61- Elvis coated with powder coat. They were stuck nose first in aluminium foil and coated with a gun. I don't seem to be too good at this...

I took 3 PC boolets and added them to my HiTek routine thinking I could tell them from the plain ones...Nope... They were covered too well...

Somehow I think PC and then 3 coats of HiTek would make a very durable coating.

[castalott]

Remember : Don't use my load data- use a loading manual...
I tried 2 loads late this evening. First 17 rounds of Arsenal 61 gr 'Elvis'

This is my first outing with this boolet for group...



That is 17 rounds at 39 yards. The bags on the bench were slick for this and I actually think this group is twice what it should be. 1 and 1/8 inches is the measurement at 39 yards. i also expect this to be smaller at more velocity. I'll go up 1/2 grain for the next test.
(ooppss- the mold is Arsenal, not Accurate...Sorry)


Success! 5 rounds NOE 46 gr WFN- WW with 4 thin coats of HiTek sized .225 in Lee die. I added some cloth to the bags to make them less slick and 'tighter' for the rifle to sit in. Both groups were CZ 527 Lux and Weaver K12. This group is less than 3/8 inch center to center. Aiming point is extreme lower left corner of black square.

I couldn't shoot anymore after these 5. I have 13 left for Ray to try in his HB 700 222 Rremington.

WW metal shoots better than the 50/50 pure/ WW mix I was using. I doubt these will expand at this velocity but I will test them later.

Oh... Both of these loads were Lee neck sized just enough to hold the boolet. The bore looks new except for the last 1/2 inch at the muzzle. It looks mildly leaded. A gray wash ... maybe thicker than a wash...

[castalott]

This looks worse than it is. I have wondered about a coat of 45-45-10 just to help with sealing the bore and/or keeping the bore clean. Won't know until tried.... I'll probably try these boolets with just the BLL too... That would be wonderful if all I had to do was size and lube with BLL....

Edited to add; These boolets were not weighed. Visually inspected only.

[35remington]

The guys at the CBA forum who shoot .22s in matches are of the firm opinion that .225" is undersized and in the vicinity of .227" gives better results. So don't opine that .225" is unquestionably "best" for what you are doing until you try alternatives and know for sure. A .228" bullet as cast may not be the mistake you think it is.

If accuracy is your concern try something other than a fixation on fast pistol/shotgun powders. Try 4227, 2400, 4759 or something similar at around 1400 fps or a bit slower which should still suit your plainbase bullets.

[castalott]

That sounds good to me. If I could just Bll as cast boolets (and they fit in the gun).....Woo Hoo!

[runfiverun]

2 coats of the BLL might do what you want if you apply them fairly thin.
I have made some concoctions for lubes and have been amazed at some of the things that work.
bees wax and cooked off jpw [1-3] made a nice wax coating quite similar to the one on 22lr. ammo.
it also was the pre-runner to 45/45 lube.

[castalott]

Updates... A paper patch removed all the "leading" ( 95% on the first push thru) . The patch was black just like the HiTek so I think that was all it was.

The CZ must have a tight neck. The unsized Noe 45 gr ( I'm making an effort to not call it 46 gr) won't go into a fired 222 case. I was considering turning the necks of a few but IF this load continues to perform, I have my garden patrol load.

[castalott]

Shot 2 more groups today but my computer all of a sudden won't recognize my sd card so no pictures...hmmmm

here is the best group..
6 shots Arsenal 61 gr 'Elvis' WW with 4 thin coats of HiTek sized .225. 4 in one little hole (5/16 outside to outside) with 2 touching but stringing toward 11 o'clock ( total group is .75 outside to outside). load was 5.5 grains Unique...Est. 1700 fps.... Very good... will go up another .5 grains.


This Arsenal 61 grain Elvis bullet is going to shoot!

[castalott]

ok...pictures are working...
Don't use this load data...use book data...

First is the 61 grain 'Elvis" boolet.



The next group is my custom arsenal 40 grain boolet. There were several operator errors here. These boolets are so short that I couldn't seat then to the right length with my seater die. But the neck fit was so bad that the rifle pushed them deeper into the case when chambered. I was really rushing this last group and just made a mess of it. I already have decent groups with this at almost 2000 fps so I assume it will shoot about as good as the others. I wish I would have ordered this mold another .002 bigger... Maybe change alloys to help that...


The last picture is the NOE 45 grain boolet ( and load above) fired into milk jugs of water at 25 yards. It expanded out nice but all this proves is it is rough on milk jugs. I don't know if it would expand like this in a garden pest. And yes, that is WW that expanded like that. I did not expect that.

That boolet just barely got into the 3rd jug. The jacketed round is Greg's 17 HMR fired at 10 yards. That is the 20 grain 'hunting ' load and it made it to the 3rd jug.. That works nice in water too.

The bore of the CZ looks new... All these groups were fired with the set trigger.