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Thread: The saga of cast boolets in 222 Remington.

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    The saga of cast boolets in 222 Remington.

    My buddy Ray and I decided to try to work up some groups in 222 Remington. He because of his near new but really old Remington 700 Varmint Special that needed to be exercised again. It has had less than 500 jacketed bullets thru it since new many years ago. It was a labor of love with one of his favorite rifles.


    I recently bought a CZ 527 in 222 to see if I could make a 22 LR and a 22 Magnum load shoot acceptable for plinking or hunting or just garden duty. This rifle was bought new and has never had a jacketed round thru it.


    Both rifles have perfect bores and have never shown signs of leading although the 700 did show some residue from one load coated with Hi Tek. Ray cleaned his rifle after every session but the Cz has never been cleaned at all and shows no need to do so. There may be a few flakes of powder but even those go away with good powder charges.


    The 700 sports a 3x9 scope that was probably special way back when but is not so special today. The CZ has a older Weaver T-6 and is crystal clear. A T-10 would be better for groups but we all run what we have. The range we shoot at is 39 yards. It is what we have until a better range is built. This would probably be a long shot for me on squirrels. I am simply not that good of a shot and think more of any animal than to wound it with a bad shot.


    We agreed on plain base boolets because we are cheap. If you are going to pay for gas checks, you might as well have quality jacketed bullets. 2 days ago was the fourth session and the groups are improving. Inspect, inspect, inspect and weigh, weigh, weigh are the rules here.


    We are using 5 to 8 shot groups now but the final test will be 20 shots on the same point of aim. This will be a real test in my mind. My goal is 20 shots under 1/2 inch outside to outside. Yep... I doubt I get there but that is the goal.


    The boolets tested were the NOE 46 grain .228 sized back to .225. ( Al...if you are reading this, please...pretty please..make this mold with the nose the same size and the driving bands at .225. I would buy at least 1 three cavity and probably 2!!) When sized to .225, the nose section is straightened out at .225 and 90% of the boolet is a groove rider. It shoots very well indeed as the coming photos show. The mold itself is a joy to use.


    The second boolet is an Arsenal Mold that cast a 40 grain boolet with no lube grooves. It was designed to be Hi Tek coated and I have shot some good groups with it as well. I wanted to see how fast I could go without a gas check and still have acceptable accuracy. It shows promise and testing will continue. This mold is also a joy to use. Who ever said casting 22 boolets is difficult has never got things 'just right'.


    One little thought and I'll end this section. We are a couple of old guys and are doing the best we can. You guys that shoot 1/4 inch groups at 900 meters offhand on a foggy night will just have to put up with us......

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by castalott; 09-21-2016 at 11:51 AM.

  2. #2
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    Castalot, there's nothing like striving to reach a goal to get a man to do his best and keep experimenting until he finds the "magic recipe." I'm betting you reach your goal. A buddy of mine has done some mildly extensive testing of cast in his .222/12 ga. combo gun, and he's gotten some rather gratifying results and really hasn't striven as hard as you are to get there. I wanna' see your targets soon!

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    Doing great in my book. Keep it up!

  4. #4
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    Second installment on the 222 easy pay plan..


    Before we get into the groups / loads.... we need a lawyer warning!!


    Warning! Don't use the load data you see here. Only use data from established reloading books. This is just presented for entertainment purposes. One should never use data from the internet. Don't do it! Your eyes may cross...or a lot worse!



    Ok...here we go...

    Attachment 177113

    Ray started at target #9. The very first shot from a clean barrel is indicated and is out of the group. A little work on this and I might be happy. The alloy is pure lead with enough tin to cast ok. They are soft and that is one reason we keep these loads low. ray lubes the boolets with Lee alox thinned with mineral spirits. After dry, he sizes them to .225 in a Lee sizer. Then he lubes the same way again. He says they don't size easy without the lube so he has an extra step.

    #8 is a nice group. Hard to beat Bullseye..or Unique for that matter... The chrono was in the sun and no velocities came up. We have them later with the CZ. I believe the CZ has shot this load as well or even better.

    #7 is not that bad except for that 11 o'clock flyer. There are 4 in that nice little cluster. I have never been crazy about Unique but it does work! I hinder myself with these loads. I want the lowest pressure possible to deform the boolet the least. But most powders don't burn efficiently until hotter charges. HHmmmm... Maybe I am my own worst enemy....

    Attachment 177115

    At the end of the day, we had 3 rounds of this load left and shot a group. I know 3 rounds doesn't show too much but it looks promising. Every group in this section was with the Remy 700..

    PS. Both of us think the 3.0 Unique load needs to go up. If I could have a pinpoint load with this boolet at 1450 FPS... well....I would be in Nirvana.
    Last edited by castalott; 09-26-2016 at 12:47 AM.

  5. #5
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    or speed up the powder.
    step down to green-dot and that 3,0 load would move up in velocity slightly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by castalott View Post
    SNIP...

    The boolets tested were the NOE 46 grain .228 sized back to .225. ( Al...if you are reading this, please...pretty please..make this mold with the nose the same size and the driving bands at .225. I would buy at least 1 three cavity and probably 2!!) When sized to .225, the nose section is straightened out at .225 and 90% of the boolet is a groove rider. It shoots very well indeed as the coming photos show. The mold itself is a joy to use.
    castalott,
    could you expand a little more on this thought.
    Was this a 228 mold? or a 225 mold that casts fat?
    what do you mean by the nose 'straightened out" ?

    Is your mold the NOE 225-45-WFN ? (Mine casts at .227)
    If so, it should have a nose near .219 when this one was in the early stages of the first group buy, the nose was originally going to be even smaller (.216), I suggested the .219 number and Al went with it.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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  7. #7
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    same diameter I went with in the HM-2 mold.
    it sloped down from 219 to 218 [right in front of the drive band] then tapered off from there.
    that is a bit more critical diameter than the body itself, most 22 cal rifles will easily chamber a 227 boolit seated out to engage the ball seat area.

  8. #8
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    Hi Jon

    I guess it is the 45 WFN .228 mold. I've called it 46 grain forever... It actually weighs 48 with my alloy and scales...

    I miked a few bullets and the driving bands run .2285 to .229. Just in front of the front driving band it mikes .219. But when I size it...

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I must honestly tell you I had to size 'this' boolet .224 to get the effect to show clearly in the photo.

    The grease groove is smaller which I think means some of the metal was formed into it. The nose in front of the driving band is now smooth sided and the same diameter as the driving bands.

    Have I answered your question? I'll try again if not....

    I am not disparaging Al or his work. Quite the opposite really as I think the world of several of his molds and this happens to be one of them.




    Well, I think I have changed my mind..

    For the way I load and the alloys I use, I would like this mold to drop .226 on the driving bands and go (when sized) .225 1/2 the way up the nose. I have this thing about an unsupported nose in the bore, I guess...

    Dale
    Last edited by castalott; 09-23-2016 at 05:16 AM.

  9. #9
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    Another short installment...

    Usual warning- get load data from established sources... Do Not use this data ...

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Cz rifle with NOE boolet.. Shows promise... I think I'll try 3.2 and 3.5 of Unique. The green Dot idea ( and Blue Dot too) sounds interesting....


    Click image for larger version. 

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    4 groups on the above.... 3 left groups is custom 40 grain boolet

    to the left is 3.1 of 700x at 1590FPS... A little faster or slower might improve things...

    Middle is 5.6 of trail Boss at 1975 FPS. If it didn't have the 2 flyers at 11 O'clock, that might be good enough for my 50 yard garden load. Almost 2000 FPS with a plain base boolet. I had to shoot a bad groundhog at about 20 yards with a load very similar to this. It was instant DRT....

    Up at #2 , we have 9.0 grains of reloader 7 for 1690 FPS.

    Over to #6 we go back to the NOE boolet and 2.5 of Unique. If I was a better reloader, this boolet might shoot into 1 hole at that distance...

    Don't forget...get your data from loading manuals

    Dale

  10. #10
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    That's some mighty good and promising initial results! I'm betting you'll have some one-holers before long! You're doing your homework, and when you finally get it all wrung out, I feel sorry for the pesky critters in your neck of the woods! Your results with that PB bullet were of particular interest to me. Thanks for the great report and info.

  11. #11
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    try another primer with the 700-x.
    that horizontal stringing is almost text book ignition inconsistency.
    it's not the powder needing a fix there it's the priming.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by runfiverun View Post
    try another primer with the 700-x.
    that horizontal stringing is almost text book ignition inconsistency.
    it's not the powder needing a fix there it's the priming.
    I've always used Winchester small pistol primers. What would you recommend? I do have some CCi in a small stash...


    Or a magnum primer?

    Thanks, Dale
    Last edited by castalott; 09-22-2016 at 07:00 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by castalott View Post
    Hi Jon

    I guess it is the 45 WFN .228 mold. I've called it 46 grain forever... It actually weighs 48 with my alloy and scales...

    I miked a few bullets and the driving bands run .2285 to .229. Just in front of the front driving band it mikes .219. But when I size it...

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	effects of sizing 45 wfn 003.jpg 
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    I must honestly tell you I had to size 'this' boolet .224 to get the effect to show clearly in the photo.

    The grease groove is smaller which I think means some of the metal was formed into it. The nose in front of the driving band is now smooth sided and the same diameter as the driving bands.

    Have I answered your question? I'll try again if not....

    I am not disparaging Al or his work. Quite the opposite really as I think the world of several of his molds and this happens to be one of them.

    Well, I think I have changed my mind..

    For the way I load and the alloys I use, I would like this mold to drop .226 on the driving bands and go (when sized) .225 1/2 the way up the nose. I have this thing about an unsupported nose in the bore, I guess...

    Dale
    Dale,
    OK, I understand now. I don't have any advice good or bad, I just didn't exactly understand what you meant by nose 'straightened out"...and wanted to understand. Thanks for taking the time to post the explanation and photo.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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  14. #14
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    My pleasure Jon.... And I would always be interested in better ways to do things....

    Thanks, Dale

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    I've had real good success with that NOE bullet in .22 Hornet. It's a real killer on squirrels at .2 LR and slower velocities.

    I recently got a .222 and have gone a different route, I wanted a gas checked load with a hollow pointed 225415. Not getting the accuracy at 100 yards I want yet, but I'll keep working on it.

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    As you approach 22 lr velocities try duplicating the hardness of the 22 lr rounds.It works for the cartridge at that velocity.
    [The Montana Gianni] Front sight and squeeze

  17. #17
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    try the cci's.
    you could also use a small pistol primer with the 700-x.
    I have switched to pistol primers when using the faster powders and sometimes had to up the load a little to get things back up to speed [plus a little extra in the accuracy dept.]
    if the pressures are below the 35-40K area [my personal maximum] I have no problem using a pistol primer safely.

  18. #18
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    Oooppss.... delete..
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 222 groups 004.jpg  
    Last edited by castalott; 09-23-2016 at 05:37 AM. Reason: I'm dumb...

  19. #19
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    Two more pictures & then we'll have to shoot some more (drat!) to have more pictures..

    usual warning... Don't use this load data!

    Click image for larger version. 

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    This is all self explanatory...

    I will add an interesting note... Once I had the scope set and the groups printed below the square, the first shot usually touched the 'number'. The group may get bigger but that first shot was right there....

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    Above is the Remy 700...


    Richhodg66... I would love to know more... You take mostly head shots? Or chest? The squirrels are DRT? What kind of damage?

    Thanks in advance. Dale

  20. #20
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    I removed my joke about Nagasaki. Ray said it was wrong...and Ray is very often right. So I apologize if I offended anyone.

    Dale

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check