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Thread: 303 British and plated bullets

  1. #1
    Boolit Man
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    303 British and plated bullets

    I know, I know, this is a cast boolit forum, but I have a quetsion regarding a reduced load, and this place is about the best site on the 'net for that sort of expertise.

    My question concerns Ed Harris' "The Load". I would like to try it out with a .312 diameter, 123 grain plated bullet. Perhaps do a ladder with 10-13 grains of Red Dot. I know, "The Load" is oriented towards 150 gr cast boolits, but I'm thinking the lighter weight bullet combined with the copper plating will pretty much make it a wash, as far as velocity and pressure go. I'd enjoy hearing from anybody who may have any questions, comments, or concerns about it, and, as always, advice is always appreciated. Thank you,

    Scott

  2. #2
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    I don't really have any advice for you, never having done it; but having used a lot of plated pistol bullets I'm aware that they are usually treated as cast bullets for determining a charge when loading. So it seems logical to me that your proposed load would be just fine. You propose to use a lighter weight bullet, and .312 is pretty common for .303 British. In fact, I've fired many a .312 jacketed 174 gr. through mine.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master Jack Stanley's Avatar
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    If it was me I'd try it . The plated pistol bullets I'm using are not meant for about 1250 feet per second , but if you're mindful of that , watching accuracy I think it would work .

    Jack
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  4. #4
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    Most of the thinly plated bullets can be treated like cast for loading sake as they are not nearly as tough as a true jacketed round and that plating will strip off if abused. Berry generally warns that their bullets are best used below 1250fps and may fail if pushed above that point. Having said that, Berry's caution is mostly geared toward handgun loads as that is the bulk of their product line and I suspect in a rifle bore higher velocities are possible without causing problems simply because of a more gradual push. (IE the same load that does 1250 from a 6 inch bore does 1850 from a carbine).

    For Red-dot in the 303 you should be able to go up to about 15gr and then you are going to start running into pressures that are above saami and not conducive to good accuracy anywho.
    Last edited by wiljen; 09-18-2016 at 10:38 AM.
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  5. #5
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    Scharfschuetze's Avatar
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    Several years ago I did just what you are proposing. I don't recall the name of the bullets, but they were made in Tacoma, WA as I recall. They were the AK/SKS design and weighed about 124 grains or so.

    I had pretty good results up to about 1,300 fps, but then the bullets would start coming apart where the rifling had depressed the jacket. Bullet holes in the target showed a flower like appearance. I gave up on the project at that point as I was looking for an inexpensive load for the kids to shoot out of the Lee Enfields.

    I'm sure you'll have better luck than me. When I tried this, the plated bullets were pretty new development for commercial sales. I'm sure that the current manufactures have fixed the too thin jacket issue that I had.
    Last edited by Scharfschuetze; 09-20-2016 at 08:26 PM.
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  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    3.2 grains of bullseye works good in my savage axis in 308 win for a reduced load with a 100 grain cast bullet.It should work good in the 303 also. I have also used 6 and 7 grains of bullseye also with good results with bullet Waights from 130 grain 160 to 200 grain cast

  7. #7
    Boolit Man
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scharfschuetze View Post
    Several years ago I did just what you are proposing. I don't recall the name of the bullets, but they were made in Tacoma, WA as I recall. They were the AK/SKS design and weighed about 124 grains or so.

    I had pretty good results up to about 1,300 fps, but then the bullets would start coming apart where the rifling had depressed the jacket. Bullet holes in the target showed a flower like appearance. I gave up on the project at that point as I was looking for an inexpensive load for the kids to shoot out of the Lee Enfields.

    I'm sure you'll have better luck than me. When I tried this, the plated bullets were pretty new development for commercial sales. I'm sure that the current manufactures have fixed the too thin jacket issue that I had.
    Yes, I believe plated bullet manufacturers have tailored the plating thickness on some of their bullets to better match the intended purpose in recent years. The bullet in question is meant to be fired from 7.62x39 brass, and I believe I have read reports of people using them with H4198 powder and getting velocities of over 1800 FPS with no signs of compromised plating. That's a promising sign. I'll let you guys know how things go in my rifle, and then maybe you can try again with some newer plated bullets.

    Right now, I'm contemplating where I should put the seating depth. I want the cartridge to be long enough to feed from the magazine fairly reliably. I also know that, in the end, this will require some experimentation, but how shallow can I get away with? I know the old rule of thumb about a minimum of the bullet diameter, but can I get away with less if the rifle needs a longer COAL to cycle reliably?

    Scott

  8. #8
    Boolit Grand Master

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    I have used plated and jacketed bullets in my 1891 Arg. Mauser in the past. Loads like you are considering worked very well. The 1891 Mauser is about a twin to the 303 British as far as loading info. You should be able to seat less than 1 bullet diameter, but not much. This will be trial and error.

  9. #9
    Boolit Man
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    I see that on a regular 7.62x39 bullet, the cannelure is well under a bullet diameter from the base:

    http://www.midwayusa.com/product/116...l-metal-jacket

    My Mark 1 Calibrated Eyeball estimates it to be about 2/3 of the bullet diameter. When I get the bullets in, I'll make a dummy round and play with COAL until I get something that feeds well, and see where the seating depth is at, and report back, see what you guys think.

    Scott

  10. #10
    Boolit Grand Master GhostHawk's Avatar
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    I would try it.

    I load Red Dot in every caliber I shoot except .22lr.

    10 grains of Red Dot below a 155 gr gas checked boolit works great in my Mosin's.
    I also shoot 13 grains behind a .430 310 gr large meplat round nose in my .444marln handi rifle.

    Smaller cartridges like .300bo or .357 all shoot very well with 4.6 grains of Red Dot and a standard weight boolit. They just won't cycle a semi auto. But I enjoy shooting my straight pull SKS bolt action rifle. Slower is not always a bad thing.

  11. #11
    Boolit Buddy
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    I've used the Xtreme Bullets 123gr plated with some success in my jungle carbine; my batch measures just over .313 and they definitely are most accurate with milder loads. Haven't had a chance to chrono these yet. My best load was 11.0 gr of Herco, but similar charges of Unique and Universal both worked well. Above 13.5 gr of Herco, they started to go wild on me, so that's about the limit of what the bullet can handle (not sure it'll take 13 gr of the faster Red Dot, but give it a try---you'll know right away.) I'm now casting my own with a Beagled Lee mold, which is cheaper still, so may not bother with these in the future.

  12. #12
    Boolit Man
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    Sorry it took so long, guys, but ya know how life can get in the way of things, eh? Anyway, finally whipped up a batch of cartridges using neck-sized PPU brass, Berry's 123 gr. bullets in .311" diameter, a Winchester Large rifle primer, and 10 gr. of Red Dot, with the bullets seated about a half a bullet diameter deep with a light crimp. They averaged 1,504 fps over a chrony at 10 feet, and were a hell of a lot of fun to plink with. I think I'll try a batch at 9 grains of Red Dot.

    Scotty

  13. #13
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    You'll just LOVE 5.0 grs. RD!!!
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  14. #14
    Boolit Man
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    5 gr. eh? Have you tried it? How'd it go?

    Scotty

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check