Estimated velocity of my .44 load using Tite Group

[fastdadio]

Looking for a velocity guestimate from the more experienced shooters. I'm loading the Lee .44 240 gr. tl. boolit, powder coated, sized .430, loaded with 6gr tite group and shooting it from a Bisley 7.5" .44 magnum. Any body care to throw a velocity guess my way? I don't have a chronograph. My data comes from the Hodgedon site which simply gives a start and max loading for this round. Start is 4.7grs at 801 fps. Max load is 10.0grs at 1288fps. So, I'm out here some where in the middle ground. I started at 5grs and going up in 1/2 gr loads. My goal here is to get into the 1000fps range for 50-70 yard corn crunchers.
Thanks Dave.

[William Yanda]

Let me guess. Assuming a linear progression, off hand, somewhere in the 950 to1000 fps range. Ought to do a number on those corn crunchers.

[runfiverun]

well 6 grs is about 15-K in a 45 colt under a 250.
it's a pretty good cowboy action load but not even close to 1-K, more like 850 fps.
I don't like to push titegroup very hard it tends to get weird at the top end or when confined to a tight space.

[fatelvis]

According to Quickload, 6grns will get you 917fps (18648 psi) in a 7.5" barrel. 7.0 grns of Titegroup will get you 1002fps (24404psi).

[gwpercle]

My linear number guestimate shows 6.0 grains will be around 922 fps....If Quickload calculated 917 fps I would say the guesstimate method was pretty darn close !
Gary

[fastdadio]

Thanks for the replies folks. I estimated the 6 gr load would be in the 900 range also but it was just that, a guess, which is why I wanted to bounce it off you guys. Thanks to Fatelvis for looking into Quickload. This puts some science behind the guess work. Looks like I'll make my way up into the 7 gr. range and then start shootin paper for groups and see what happens. I also understand that titegroup is not the best powder for the higher pressure loads but it works 'ok' for everything I load across the bench and I currently have 4 pounds of it. With a 1000fps goal it may be ok here.

[runfiverun]

you should be alright.
I have shot a bunch of 231 at the 7gr level in both the 44 and 45.
but have actually had good luck with unique in both cases at the 8.5-9.3 gr level.
unique is not my favorite powder but where it works well,,, it works well.

[HeavyMetal]

RFR has the right idea, if you can find some Unique!

My General Purpose 44 mag load is a Lyman 250 grain Kieth 429421 ( square groove) over 10 Grains Unique Starline Brass Federal Standard primer sized .430.

My Chrony says this runs an average of 1150 out of my 8 3/8's Model 29 and can be shot all day with no flinch.

For serious work I'd load the same combo with a dose of WW296 for 1450 out of that Model 29, if you cast hard enough you could get Two corn cruncher's with one shot if you had some time to wait for them to line up, LOL!

HM

[DougGuy]

Titegroup is fine in the .44 or .45 with lighter boolits. Burns much too fast to make magnum velocity loads with hunting boolits.

[fastdadio]

Titegroup is fine in the .44 or .45 with lighter boolits. Burns much too fast to make magnum velocity loads with hunting boolits.

Do you think I'm pushing it by loading 7grs for a 1000 fps? Hogdgon says up to 10 grs. So this load seems to be middle of the road to me. Which is what I like. Of course the groups I get will tell all.

[fatelvis]

I think you're fine at 7grns, but personally, I would work up from 6grns., in case you run across a really accurate node.


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[DougGuy]

Do you think I'm pushing it by loading 7grs for a 1000 fps? Hogdgon says up to 10 grs. So this load seems to be middle of the road to me. Which is what I like. Of course the groups I get will tell all.

Yeah you are good with this load, it is not what I or anyone else would consider magnum velocity. Unique will do good in the .44 too, up to the point you want to go supersonic with it and then it runs out of headroom where you hit the pressure ceiling before you get the speed you would like. This is what fast burning powders do with heavy boolits and this is why they run out of steam so soon. That is, *IF* you want to stay below recommended pressure ceilings.

There are some powders that are slow, and safe to download into the 1000 ~ 1200fps range with the 240gr boolit, 2400, AA#9, LilGun, and I am sure there are others, and H110/W296 should be reserved for full out hunting loads and should not be downloaded below published minimum charge weights.

[fastdadio]

[QUOTE=fatelvis;3781502]I think you're fine at 7grns, but personally, I would work up from 6grns., in case you run across a really accurate node.

Plan on it. First run will be 6, 6.5, 7, 7.5 12 rounds of each load. All on paper at 50 yds. We'll see what happens from there.

[fastdadio]

Yeah you are good with this load, it is not what I or anyone else would consider magnum velocity. Unique will do good in the .44 too, up to the point you want to go supersonic with it and then it runs out of headroom where you hit the pressure ceiling before you get the speed you would like. This is what fast burning powders do with heavy boolits and this is why they run out of steam so soon. That is, *IF* you want to stay below recommended pressure ceilings.

There are some powders that are slow, and safe to download into the 1000 ~ 1200fps range with the 240gr boolit, 2400, AA#9, LilGun, and I am sure there are others, and H110/W296 should be reserved for full out hunting loads and should not be downloaded below published minimum charge weights.

Thanks Doug. Your post is full of truth. I have loaded with all the powders you mentioned. I found that Unique while a good performer, was kind of dirty. 2400 is just a wonderful powder to work with in my .44 & .45's. There is a reason it has been a 'go to' powder for so long. I just finished off a jug of the 296 which put me on the hunt for something new and I wanted to load a little slower and I wanted to get away from the narrow window that 296 presents. Up popped Tight Group so I got in on a group buy and got 4 lbs. So far I've loaded .357, .45acp, .44mag and using data from lever guns, 5.5 grs in my 30-30 trapper, which is a fun little dirt kickin load. So far, I'm liking this stuff but all I've been loading is light loads for blastin ammoes. It's time to get serious with it and see what it can really do.
Thanks again to everyone for the info, help and replies. I hate dead end threads, so once I collect some data, I'll get back here with the results.

[Boogieman]

5 gr. titegroup under Lyman # 429421 gives 747 fps. with 43 fps es. out of my 7.5" SBH. 19.5 of A2400 gives 1350

[fastdadio]

Back with a range report. I loaded up 12 rounds each in 6, 6.5, 7, & 7.5 grs Titegroup. Fired at 25yds on paper. My results were dismal to say the least. Likely the worst groups I've ever had loading anything...ever. Looked like a buck shot pattern on the paper. The 7 gr loading was the best with a 6" group. So, it looks like the 5 to 5.5 grain poppers are the best use for Titegroup in my .44. The 5 grain range is fun and pleasant to shoot for woods walking, blasting stumps and cow patties but thats about it. Looks like I'll be in the market for another pound or two 2400. I like that stuff.

[fatelvis]

That is unfortunate. I was watching for your results with interest, possibly trying it myself if things looked promising. Thanks for posting your results....

[fastdadio]

That is unfortunate. I was watching for your results with interest, possibly trying it myself if things looked promising. Thanks for posting your results....

OH well. This is how we learn. Thanks again for taking the time to put it into Quick loads for me.

[runfiverun]

I really have good luck with the 6 grs in the 45 colt with 165gr boolits.
7grs of 231 in the 44 under a 240 is pleasant to shoot and has a little more pop than most realize.
you can also go a slightly slower powder like Herco or BE-86 and get the 1-k fps with low pressure and you still have the ability to bump the load if needed.
if you wanna poke about with a faster powder bulls-eye isn't a bad choice, but neither is green-dot or American select.
they bulk up a bit more in the case too.

[JohnH]

I have a Dan Wesson 6" heavy barrel vent rib that absolutely dotes on 6 grains of Titegoup and the Lee 200 RF. My mould drops them weighing 217 grains. I have a 5" 45 Colt Blackhawk that absolutely despises Titegroup with 200-230 grain boolits but put 7 grains of Red Dot under the same boolits and the gun/load shoots more accurately than I can hold. Go figure.