Testing the MP/Lyman 525

[Hogtamer]

Got the mold this week, washed with a soft brush and Dawn detergent. Read so much about how everything had to run hot with that mold but found that not to be the case. Maybe it's because I've cast zinc, but nothing seemed unusual to me. I'm using a hard antimonial lead and slugs dropped nicely, weighing +/- 495 grains. Filled bases with hot glue which seems to be preferred and used a hard wad column for all loads. Cut the shotcups off 2 different wads, the first a Trap Commander and used a 20 ga hard card in base over 42 grains Alliant Steel. All loads out of Ultra Slug Hunter. Those wads were a perfect fit but were totaly destroyed. Accuracy so-so at 60 yds. Today I fired 5 each of three different charges at 100 yds ranged off a bench, all components the same except powder. The wads today were some old Active wads I have as they are thicker material. No hard card in bottom and they were a nice fit with petals almost to top of slug. Here are the results in order fired.
40 grains blue dot, new 3" cheddite primed hull, 6-pt crimp. pretty soft shooting and hulls ejected briskly.
33 gr 800x, components same. More recoil and POI higher than blue dot. Hulls didn't eject but came out easily with fingers. One is high above the 3 group in blue tape. A nice geoup but for the one flyer left.
40 gr Alliant Steel, components same. More muzzle blast as I've come to expect with Steel recoil similar to 800x charge. I expected better with this load.

The petals were ripped off the bases of the wads with all charges as I expected with thin shotgun hulls, but the bases themselves looked good. No imprints of slugs or blowouts. Recovere 5 slugs from hard clay bank and they were compressed lengthwise by about a third. No expansion to speak of with this hard lead and hot glue was still in cavity of all but one.

As usual I've not learned enough. They seem to like the higher velocity of the 800x which I guesstimate in the neighborhood of 1500fps, as this scope is zeroed for my Zlug load. I'd like to find a thicker petal wad but don't think I will. Maybe dead soft lead would help bit I have none at the moment. The mold itself is great, just really heavy and slugs dropped like a dream.

The Lyman book loads for these things seem really hot to me, all the way up to 49 gr
Blue dot. I'll try a few more grns of blue dot and some othe wad combos as this progresses. Hope this helps and I'm open to suggestions to tighten this up.

[uncle dino]

Does that new slug have the same base pin as the lyman? D

[Hogtamer]

Don't have the Lyman D. but I'll measure this one tomorrow for you to compare.

[uncle dino]

I have some of those base wads I made for the Lyman's. If shape is the same they might work with that slug. Initial testing were groups half that size out of smoothbore. D

[michiganmike]

I've had the Lyman 525 gr. Sabot mould for about two years. I have some old targets that look like yours. With the various options of powders, hulls, wads, etc. it takes some experimentation to find what your shotgun prefers.

I fire the rounds from a Remington 870 with a rifled barrel. For sights I mounted a Konus 1.5X5 scope, which has held up very well.

I reload 2 3/4"Winchester AA once fired hulls. I use lead from the City of Lansing, MI when they replaced their old lead water pipes. It appears to have something in it besides lead. Slug weight is around 490 gr.

With the WAA12R wad and 44 gr. of Blue Dot I get consistent 3" groups at 50 yards. Estimated fps according to the Lyman handbook is circa 1400. I have tried several other powders, hulls and wads SR 4756 gave less consistent groups. Universal did well, consistent groups. Blue Dot seems to be the one this shotgun prefers. Hope this helps. Keep at it; I found the Lyman reloading manual and its shotgun slug data was very helpful.

That's all I can give right now. And I grabbed the first data I could find in my shop.

[elvas]

The Following wads gave best results for me with the Lyman Sabot Slug:
1. WAA12F114 + 16ga NC
2. 12S3 + 16ga NC
3. B&P Diamant 15 + 2, 20ga cork wads in shotcup
4. B&P Diamant 18 + 1, 20ga cork wad in shotcup
NC or cork wads in shotcups were choosen so that top of slug is even with wad lips.
All loads were roll crimped with a hard Gualandi Overshot disc.

[Hogtamer]

2 more loads today, both with new 3" Cheddite primed hulls from BPI (cheap). Both with Nobel Sport wads BPI has on special (really cheap). Hot glue filled base with 20 ga 1/8" nitro card in bottom of wad, all shots at ranged 105 yds. Forgot to add, cast these from SOWW and they weigh 522 gr +\-
One flyer high with 32 gr 800x

One flyer low with 43 gr Longshot.

[Hogtamer]

One more time: Today fired 4 of the Lymans cast from SOWW that weigh 522 gr + or - a grain or 2. Very consistent casts from this excellent mold. 3" new Cheddite hulls/cheddite primers. 43 gr Longshot powder (there's a Lyman book load that calls for 45) hand weighed. Slugs were slightly overfilled with hot glue, trimmed and sanded flush, seated without a hard card in the bottom of a Trap Commander wad for a nice fit. Slug filled wad slips easily into the hulls and just pushed down on powder fi ger tight. I added a BPI frangible plastic overshot card to get a perfect 6 point crimp with little pressure on a Lee load-all.

I'm happy with the charge weight and this should be traveling at something slightly pver 1500 fps, but recoil is manageble out of heavy Ultra Slug Hunter. What I'm trying to determine is whether the wad petals should stop just below the top of the slug or reach the top for best results out of rifled barrel. The pic shows the results. Wad base is perfect, no gas escape and the bottom of the wad cup as well....no setback imprint so the hot glue serves well in that regard. The petals are completely stripped however, and I don't really see how it could be otherwise given
the relatively thin material. wad cushion seems to have been uniformly compressed. Also remember this is a shotgun trigger and pretty stout recoil. Someone may shoot better than this and I would not be surprised at a tighter group of a real bench. So, with no shot farther than 3" from center I'm happy with this. The load gets an A+ for ease of loading and minimal standard components. Look forward to others testing.

[toallmy]

I played with a few of them around a week ago over some herco just to feel out the stack height , but it took me another week to rummage around and find the scope and mounts . So shooting was put on hold for a bit . I am dreaming of a 6 in 100 yarder that hits hard on that end but not to hard on this end . If I can get it to shoot as nice as they cast it will be wonderful , here is a before and after , and it's easy to find them in the berm .

[Bob in St. Louis]

Great information. Thank you very much!

[1kshooter]

absolutely love this slug and it has helped me take at least 15 deer over the last 10 years or so from 10 -170 yards!
My Savage 212F loves this slug over a stiff load of blue dot in a AA12 wad and Rem green STS hull or grey super handicap AA Winchester!

[Smoke4320]

Bet none have run to far either

[CPL Lou]

Through some careful measuring (sliding a slug in a wad) down the barrel my 12 ga. muzzleloader, I have discovered that these slugs fit perfectly in my TK2000 !
A bit snug once I get past the jug choke, perfect for a good seal, and using a modified choke, it should be just the ticket!
Going to fire a few next time I get to the range and see how they do.
I don't know if there are any others using a TK2000 here, but I thought I would offer up the information, just in case.
BTW, that measuring was done with a WAA12 wad (CB1118-12 ClayBuster).

CPL Lou

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Greetings Hogtamer, I was getting bored but sure did enjoy reading your post, thanks for sharing it !
Keep it up my friend.
Best regards,
Ajay K. Madan
Super Blazing Sabots

[Hogtamer]

Since this old post I perfected this slug for my gun: Fed 2 3/4” plastic base slug with Fed 209 primer, 36 gr Longshot. A trap commander or guilandi wad with 525 Lyman with base filled with hot glue and star crimp. 3” group at 100 yds off a rest but killed about 40 hogs with this offhand.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...5-for-Boomer81
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...11868-Hamicide

[Hoss29860]

Thats a impressive grouping hogtamer . I need to get me one of these molds to play around with only have a rifled choke at the current time wonder how they would perform out a smooth bore with rifled choke at around 50 yards

Since this old post I perfected this slug for my gun: Fed 2 3/4” plastic base slug with Fed 209 primer, 36 gr Longshot. A trap commander or guilandi wad with 525 Lyman with base filled with hot glue and star crimp. 3” group at 100 yds off a rest but killed about 40 hogs with this offhand.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...5-for-Boomer81
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...11868-Hamicide

[Hogtamer]

Got some you’re welcome to try.

[longbow]

I plan the same thing but with other slugs. I am finally getting back to the rifled choke tube to try. In my case, The expense of getting a barrel reamed and tapped is prohibitive so I bought a Brownells choke tube adapter and Carlson's rifled choke tube. The adapter is silver solder onto the barrel... so we'll see how that goes!

My feeling is that the rifling twist is too fast and grooves too shallow. Having said that I have seen a few posts where people claim good groups all the way to 100 yards using rifled choke tube. I hope so!

Next on the list is new gun with rifled barrel. The deals on the Mossberg Field and Deer with 28" smoothbore barrel and 24" fully rifled barrel and with scope are not enough more than the cost of a new rifled barrel to keep me from just buying a new gun. Can't find a used rifled barrel.

Looking at Hal's results with fully rifled barrel that is pretty impressive.

Those targets were shot with your USH weren't they Hal? A pump gun wouldn't likely do as well due to slop between barrel and receiver but I have shimmed my smoothbore Mossberg Slugster so the shim could go with rifled barrel too.

Maybe it is time to bite the boolit... or slug in this case and just spend some money on a rifled gun!

Longbow

[W.R.Buchanan]

HT: I've got the Mihec mould as well. My very first drop was perfect! The moulds are a joy to run.

Either you or BT was having good results with 25 gr of Herco.

My current load is WW Slug with base filled with glue. 514 gr total. WAA12 wad with .070 hard card under slug, STS hull with fold crimp. Looking for 1200-1250 fps, if it is light I'll up the charge. My STI slugs are very accurate with 23 gr of Unique, new Rio Hull, Roll Crimped..

They will be fired from my A5 with Hastings Rifled Barrel and M500 with rifled barrel. Been waiting for my range to reopen.

I see no reason to shoot these from a smoothbore unless you're in a pinch. There is no way they can fly strait unless they are spinning. The only way it will fly strait is if it is launched "Perfectly strait and Square" to the bore. This my happen once in a while but it won't be predictable at all. Period.

However if they hit the target head on, they will be devastating. It is a .73 cal. Wadcutter!

"Longbow" Those targets were shot with your USH weren't they Hal? A pump gun wouldn't likely do as well due to slop between barrel and receiver but I have shimmed my smoothbore Mossberg Slugster so the shim could go with rifled barrel too.

I have heard a little about this process but fail to see how it will affect the flight of a bullet that is going wherever the sights which are attached to the barrel are pointing. Sometimes I see things that don't make sense to me?

What could I do to shim the barrel on my A5 which not only not attached to the receiver but relocates with every shot due to the entire barrel sliding back and forth in ways cut in the receiver. The barrel/bolt lock up is close to exactly the same as the Mberg when it goes into battery, cuz they used the Browning Method of locking the barrel and bolt together with the single locking lug going into a rectangular hole in the barrel extension.

And yet the gun yields groups that rival a large caliber rifle with a solid receiver and barrel ?

Also there is a good supply of 24" rifled barrels for M500's on Ebay and I'm sure that Canada has some as well. Most are less than $250 during the current Biden gun control panic. I paid $125 for mine a year or so ago and it was NIB!

It would definitely be a welcome thing to get this Slug "Definitively Sussed Out" so everyone could get good results, as they are just too cool looking to not work well.

Randy

[longbow]

Randy:

While I can't say that the sloppy barrel positively affects accuracy I have read several articles on pinning and shimming barrels to improve accuracy with pump guns because of sloppy fit. That is generally in reference to rifled guns.

I have to think it does affect accuracy because while the sights may be mounted to the barrel so everything is pointed to the right spot, when the trigger is pulled if the barrel can shift due to slop it is going to. I suspect that the shift will happen while the slug is still in the bore so it's point of aim will be changing before it leaves the barrel. At least that's my take.

In the case of my Slugster, I wound up using 0.004" brass shim stock to take up the slop. That is quite a bit of slop! Before I put the shim in the barrel literally rattled in the receiver.

Since changes in muzzle rise during recoil can affect point of impact due to the hold on the gun, that much slop can't be helping. Removing it isn't going to hurt anything regardless.

Yes, as for your A5, due to the way the barrel recoils I doubt there would be anything you can do to tighten it up... but then does it need tightening up? If it is a good fit and long bearing surface (1 1/2 to 2 diameters?) it may be plenty tight as it is and you are saying it shoots well so likely the fit is good. Maybe you can check with feeler gauges? A good running for for plain bearings runs about 0.001"/1" so my Slugster with 0.004"/just over an inch is sloppy by anyone's standards. Doesn't matter to a shot pattern and I may not see a noticeable difference using smoothbore barrel but if rifled I just might.

Yeah, I've looked for used Mossberg rifled barrels and not found any in Canada. Lots on American auction sites but not so much on Canadian used and auction sites. They are even scarce new here... as far as I have found anyway. Availability changes by the day of course but I have looked several times. Used guns with rifled barrels as rare and they are are going for more than new guns currently but then the new guns are tending to be out of stock.

I think the best deal I have seen is the Mossberg 500 Field and Deer brand new with field barrel and rifled barrel with scope for $449.00 Canadian. I'd rather have open rifle sights but open sighted Mossberg barrels are even more scarce than cantilever. Cabelas Canada has Mossberg 500 rifled barrels for $289 CDN and rifle sighted. However, they are out of stock online and limited stock only in Ottawa which is about a 3 day drive (curb side pick up only)! Everywhere else I have checked is out of stock.

If I was smart which I am not very, I would have bought a rifled gun or rifled barrel some time ago. Oh well! I may find one eventually.

In the mean time I have about 100 slugs loaded up in quite the selection of styles from standard Lee slugs to Brenneke'ized Lee slugs from modified 7/8 and 1 oz. moulds, some slugs from home made moulds, round balls of various sizes, and cloth patched 0.715" RB's about to join the flock. These will al be shot from smoothbore for now and hopefully later this week or next week.

That'll keep me busy for a bit then I'll be punchy for a week or two after!

Longbow