Facts, realities, economics of lead casting: break even with factory bullet costs

[AJG]

Dear people,

Facts, realities, economics of lead casting: Break even calculation of cast lead bullets vs factory FMJ bullets
I get my wheel wheights normally for 0.17 US$ per lb. This is on the edge of being non economical.

I find it adventurous to get WW from the gas Station for 0.17 US$/lbs and melt it by my own. 1 lbs lead gives you (1 lbs=7000 grain/125 grain=56 bullets of 125 grain) 56 bullets of 125 grain. Example of lead cost-pricing: 1.13 US$ per lbs/56=0.02 US$ for 1 bullets (hypothetical lead cost if 1 lb of lead is 1.13 US$). (we have here in Southamerica the Problem of non availlability of factory bullets supply). My lead cats bullets cost me (0.17 US$/lbs/56) 0.00303 US$ per 1 lead cast bullets (my own cast lead bullets. I am situated in Southamerica). Is this calculation correct?
Compared to factory Winchester FMJ: a bag of 100 FMJ 115 grain 9mm Luger cost 23 US$. These FMJ cost 13 US$ per 56 FMJ bullets.

In order to shoot lead bullets THEY MUST BE CHEAPER THAN FACTORY BULLETS OTHERWISE IT DOES NOT MAKE MUCH SENSE TO CAST; except in my Situation were reloading supplies are rare and not availlable all the time.
I believe that are the economics and hard Facts for lead casting.

I get 1 lb of WW for 0.17 US$. That 1 lbs lead gives me 56 cast lead bullets.
0.17 US$/56= 0.00303 US$ per bullet.
I made the mistake multiplicating where I should divide. So each lead cast bullet costs me 0.00303 US$. That is a local Price of 18 Pesetas instead of the local Price of the FMJ of 1240 Pesetas.
For each factory FMJ bullet I get therefore (1240/18=68 bullets) 68 cast lead bullets. I can make 68 lead cast bullets if I do not buy an factory FMJ bullet (fore every FMJ).

THAT ARE ECONOMICS. HUGE SAVINGS!

What do you guys think?

[Rooster]

It is your math that is off my friend.

You divide the cost of one pound by the number of bullets per pound to get cost per bullet.

$0.17/56 bullets = $0.00303 per bullet

One third of once cent per bullet at your cost point. Even at your $1.13 per pound price it comes out to $1.13/56= $0.02 per bullet (two cents each).

[AJG]

Yes Rooster,

Your calc is correct.
I made a calculating mistake.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

SNIP...
In order to shoot lead bullets THEY MUST BE CHEAPER THAN FACTORY BULLETS OTHERWISE IT DOES NOT MAKE MUCH SENSE TO CAST

...

What do you guys think?

There is more to that "sense" than meets the eye.

There is the "hobby" factor,
there is the "independence" factor,
there is the "better" factor,
It is kind of a running joke in the casting community, about saving money...to be honest, we don't necessarily save money, but we do shoot more for Less $$$.

[reddog81]

I figure $.02 to .03 for lead. $.01 for power coat. Probably around $.01 for the cost of the mold. For an average of around $.05 USD per bullet. Give or take depending on bullet size - most of mine are 124 to 200 grain.

The biggest expense is my time. It takes a significant amount of time to cast, size and lube/coat each bullet however I enjoy the hobby...

[WILCO]

I thought originally that I'd save money, but then I learned the casting world was much too varied for that nonsense.

[popper]

Very economical, ~$6/100 for pistol, $17-20/100 for rifle. Amortize the $350 for equipment over 5-6k boolits - add $6/100. Compare with $60/100 for 30/30 factory or $40/100 for pistol - still a winner, if you shoot much.

[AJG]

Popper, your pricing are those bullets or factory loaded ammo rounds?
I assume your pricing is based on factory loaded ammo from the USA.

Prices in the USA.

Here in Southamerica no matter which rifle caliber it is, a round of 308, 30-30, 243, and others in the ballpark (except 223 which is a Little "cheaper") costs about 2.75 US$.
That means 100 rounds of factory rifle ammo costs 275 US$ in Southamerica instead of the 60$ US ammo Price.
9mm Luger pistol factory ammo costs 0.81 US$ per round (cheapest round) that is 81 US$ per 100 rounds of 9mm Luger instead of the 40 US$ you mentioned as Price in the USA.

In the USA you may argue back and forth if reloading and casting saves some Money; here in Southamerica reloading and casting ALLWAYS SAVES AT LEAST 50% TO 80% OF THE FACTORY AMMO COST (80% if you cast and reload; 50% if you do not cast). Yes as well here in Southamerica we shoot more if we reload but still there is lots of monetary savings left.
Plus obviously the inmaterial pleasures which John B Glencoe already mentioned.

I shot today again my 9mm Federal Rimmed and got a grouping of about 3.75" from 12 meters distance. Good enough for the rudimentary sights of the 1873 SAA 357 Magnum (lots of guesswork were to hold the front sight since it shoots low). It is me, not the gun!

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I figure $.02 to .03 for lead. $.01 for power coat. Probably around $.01 for the cost of the mold. For an average of around $.05 USD per bullet. Give or take depending on bullet size - most of mine are 124 to 200 grain.

The biggest expense is my time. It takes a significant amount of time to cast, size and lube/coat each bullet however I enjoy the hobby...

The economics, the creativity, the chance to make bullets you can't buy anywhere, are all true. The cost of a mould might be spread out over your whole life. But the biggest expense is the powder to do all that shooting with.

[AJG]

First Hand experience. Effects on meat: 7/8 oz Lee drive key slug & Lee 124 grain Truncated Cone TL .356" 9mm bullet.

As I shot today the 9mm Federal Rimmed I looked specially at the 124 grain Lee TC TL lead cast bullet and noticed in all instances the base of the bullet is NOT deformed nor any signs of lead melting. I do not have a leading Problem. I use Texaco Marfak MP2 (NLGI 2 in the USA) Lithium grease as lead bullet lubricant and so far never had any leading issue.
Another Observation I noticed that as I do not water quench the cast bullets they stay the softest possible. As they are soft they are prone to deform very easily and do deform very badly. In any Shooting (cowhead, Wood or other) These (recuperated) lead cast bullets deform badly. So no Need for Hollow Points.

I shot an cowhead (bigger calf ready to slaughter while slaughtering. I shot it after it bleeded out after throat cut and stabbed in the heart) today once with the 9mm Federal Rimmed 124 grain Truncated Cone cast and half of the bullet was sheared off and deformed badly. The bullet entered the front top head and got stuck in the tongue. As well this same cowhead I shot with the 7/8 oz Lee drive key slug and that slug entered sideways of the mouth and got stuck deeply in the neck were it crushed and broke Mayor structural bones. It was sheared off in half and 1/4 of it I found nearby and the other 1/4 was basically obliterated in small pieces. It has an pleasant recoil (very light) but I believe sufficient stopping power. Best Thing of the 7/8 oz slug is it DOES NOT DESTROY MEAT at all (factory slugs tend to destroy huge amounts of meat render it unusable)

[DerekP Houston]

The economics, the creativity, the chance to make bullets you can't buy anywhere, are all true. The cost of a mould might be spread out over your whole life. But the biggest expense is the powder to do all that shooting with.

I find it to be an enjoyable hobby as well. Nothing like having fun and staying home away from the clubs and bars.

[GhostHawk]

To buy any jacket bullet, especially in larger calibers unless you buy in large bulk you end up with 25 cents per bullet plus shipping our more.

5.56 or .223 is considerably cheaper across the board. But still looking at volume to get price below a dime each.

I do not personally count the cost of my molds. I consider them an investment in a hobby I enjoy.

How do you value a .312 185 gr gas check mold that has cast near 1k boolits and is still going? If you take care of your tools I think 5-10,000 boolits from a single mold is possible. At 18.95 for a 2 cavity that leaves your cost at a small number behind several zero's. Or not big enough to be worth worrying about IMO.

As to lead mostly I buy 65# of range at 70$ shipping included. Or 1-3 cents per boolit depending on size.

Save money, no, never happened. Build a big stash of ammo that does exactly what I want, heck ya. Hundreds of rounds worth.

Most of the calibers that I load for I can shoot at 6-10 cents a round. Gas checks will add another 2-3 cents to that so mostl300-y my rounds will be a bit slower. I like the sweet spot around 1300 to 1400 fps.

Certainly fast enough for decent 100 yard accuracy on paper. And some of those slower moving larger calibers like .357mag and .444marlin are cloverleaf accurate at 100m if I can do my part. That is good enough for me.

In the end it is a magnificent hobby, with endless hours of enjoyment. And it does help cut costs, especially if you can stay away from fancy molds and bottom pour pots.

[dverna]

I only cast to save.

This year I purchased a large quantity of 55 gr SP .224 bullets for less than $.08 each. I have a mold to cast .22 cal bullets but may never use it. Why deal with trying to get a cast .22 to shoot accurately without leading when I can easily get high velocity and accuracy with jacketed at reasonable cost?

I have other calibers in both pistols and rifles that will rarely see a jacketed bullet. Cast does what I need without doing handstands, and with considerable savings.

[Freightman]

The equipment cost , but some of my equipment is 30-40 years old so the cost is not a factor. I also have a supply of free lead as primers$.o3+ 3 to 6 gr powder for pistols is the only cost + the case that I will lose before I wear it out. So is it economical? Yes I would not be able to go to the range and shoot 3-500 a couple of times a month it would be one or two times a year with store bought.

[RogerDat]

Went up north with daughter and grandson. Went through a pile-o-brass. Knowing the cost was a fraction of what factory ammo would cost made it enjoyable, there is flinch from recoil but there can also be wince from cost of each shot being fired. Just .38 special the bargain bulk pack at Dunhams is 44 cents each. Mine are around 7 cents each. We went through maybe $15 worth rather than $90 worth of ammo. More fun less monies.

I would however have to stop buying stuff to actually "save" money. Don't hold your breath waiting for that to happen.

The other aspect of knowing I have a source of supply that I can count on is also a big win, it is why I'll buy check makers eventually, would take about 7k checks or more to reach break even but I know I will have the checks I need and that ladies and gents has real value. I will say the time investment can be fairly high. Takes a lot of time to prep 5.56 military brass or even necked rifle. That is offset by the ability to craft a comfortable and accurate round. My 200 gr. lead powder coated with 20 some grains of powder vs. the Greek mil-surp in 303 British the homemade shoots nice groups and is easy on rifle and shooter, the second tries to drive the bolt out of the rifle, the butt through my shoulder and unless I'm shooting engine blocks at 500 meters is abuse without purpose. The 5.56/.223 cast at 70 grains is a whole lot more accurate than the bulk 55 grain ammo. Way cheaper than the heavy stuff in jacketed too.

[Hardcast416taylor]

For the nearly 60 years I`ve been using WW`s for casting, I`ve yet to pay for a single weight. Last year I finally quit accepting free take off weights from a buddy with a car dealership. I have at present 4 overflowing 5 gal. pails of hand sorted weights to smelt into ingots and add them to the approximately 1,500 +/- lbs of already done ingots. Add in the linotype, monotype, radiation shieldings and the pile of pure plumber soft I probably have a total of 3,700 +/- total lbs.. I didn`t include the 100 or so pounds of tin and pewter ingots. With my current health situation this `pile` of lead will outlast me by a long shot. I started casting out of necessity those many years back, and at times as a form of therapy. I continually have added different tools to aid me in new calibers or ways to melt/smelt lead. If you have to squeeze each penny to get a nickle from it in a hobby like casting, perhaps you should instead try bird watching for a cheaper hobby.Robert

[Electric88]

Dang Hardcast, point me in his direction! Haha

[GOPHER SLAYER]

Cost of lead has never been a problem for me since I worked for the phone co for 37 years. There was always tons of lead in the pole yards. There may still be for all I know. There is still lots of lead cable around. Also I have been fortunate in finding all kinds of bullet molds for very little cash outlay. I have many molds, both rifle and pistol I have never used and probably never will. I have also been lucky in yard sales. In one yard sale I bought, actually traded for a man's lifetime collection of casting equip. With that I got more .45 caliber bullets, both 452 & 454 than I will ever load and shoot. I also got more brass than I could lift. I had to move it on a dolly and the man I traded with lifted it into my trunk. My problem is the same as most of us in Southern Ca. No place to shoot, at least none that is close by. I should have left the state years ago. At my age it is not practical.

[AJG]

I casted today again 78 124 grain Truncated Cone tumble lube Lee .356" lead cast bullets. As well I casted about 25 7/8 oz Lee drive key slugs.
Seems the wrinkle Problem has diminished considerably. It is the casting technique what makes the difference.
I still cast with the aluminum water kettle. I heat know on open flame the neck of the kettle to heat it more and that makes a considerable difference. As well I cast continuously without too much time between castings (repouring the lead into the mold) and that is a key factor as well to maintain the Mold hot. Casting itself is keeping the mold hot enough just do not let transcurr too much time between pouring. Pour lead into mold, let cool and shake 'em out and then immediately pour lead into the mold again, etc. Has to be continuous casting.
That gave me way less wrinkles and allmost allways filled out cavities.
I admit this Charge of lead was taken from old batteries and is for sure pure lead and not high Zinc content as in Wheel Weights. That may be a factor too.
Have now about 250 cast bullets for 9mm Luger/9mm Federal Rimmed and about 35 7/8 oz slugs for 12 gauge shotgun. That will last a good time.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Here is a real good post to read
"Why Car Batteries Are Dangerous"

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...-Are-Dangerous
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AJG,
I removed your video link about religion, we have a forum for that, and this one ain't it