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Thread: Swaging for the .357 max

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy uncle dino's Avatar
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    Swaging for the .357 max

    With the youth deer hunt only 2 weeks away. It was decided that my 13 year old daughter "needed" a cartridge with a little more oomph. She shot her first deer last year with .357 mag. So off to the bullet makin shed we went. So after much deliberation and trial and error, we came up with these.
    170 grain .358 soft nose. Worked up a load and settled on 26 grains of accurate 1680. Here's her 100 yard 5 shot group.Click image for larger version. 

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    These were shot through 1/4 plywood with a wet cardboard backstop. Expansion was perfect and penetrated approx. 20 inches. Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	175815 Recoil is minimal (none) and after the first shot, her confidence level sky rocketed. This group was shot with T/C encore with mgm 21 inch barrel. I can hardly wait for that new batch of venison. D
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  2. #2
    Boolit Master

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    thought you only liked large calibers those look really good. I have been playing with using 380 brass and making 357 mag rounds, was that made from a commercial jacket or is the your own makings.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    Very nice work
    8500' Wet Mountain Valley, Colorado

  4. #4
    Boolit Buddy uncle dino's Avatar
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    Well, I can't very well have her pullin the trigger on some 650 grain devastator's. I don't think she's 100 lbs. that would probably cause a a permanent flinch. These were commercial jackets. .660 long. I drew down some larger jackets to try. But way too much waste. D
    Last edited by uncle dino; 09-04-2016 at 04:36 PM.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master

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    let me know if you want to try some 380, I do owe you

  6. #6
    Boolit Buddy
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    Very nice work

  7. #7
    Boolit Buddy tiger762's Avatar
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    Those look nice! I have a CH4D set in 357 that produces rounds that look like that. Come to think of it, the 312 and 429 sets I have from CH4D all sort of have that same round-nose-flat-point profile

  8. #8
    Boolit Buddy uncle dino's Avatar
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    I can run them farther into the die for a smaller nose. But they didn't expand as well. I'm running these about 2200 fps in single shot rifle. That's the beauty of swaging, you can adjust profile to your needs.

  9. #9
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    Look at those beauties! BTX notch and everything. Awesome!

    Nice work! My girls are all most old enough to be hunting too. Great job finding the right combo that she will feel confident with. I'm sure if you two get a deer within range ..... well initial results looks very promising. Be sure to post some more pics.

    Good shooting, hunting, and swage on!

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  10. #10
    Boolit Buddy uncle dino's Avatar
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    i don't know who's more excited me or her. Saturday can't get here fast enough. That little max in a carbine has just about got to be the best little deer rifle for kids and the recoil shy. I'm tempted to find another one.

  11. #11
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    Yes it does look ideal.

    Good hunting!

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  12. #12
    Boolit Mold
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    Uncle Dino,
    I just received my 357 Maximum MGM G2 barrel so your post caught my eye. Perhaps I am a bit slow but just how did you form/swage these bullets?? Thanks in advance for your reply.
    Exit

  13. #13
    Boolit Buddy uncle dino's Avatar
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    Exit..welcome...basic swaging 101, Start with jacket and core. I believe core was 152 gr and jacket 18 grains .660 long ..Seat core in jacket, btx notch, and then point form. This bullet can easily be made on reloading press. Your gonna love that g2 set up. With that mgm barrel should be super easy to work up an accurate load. The more I shoot this little caliber the more I like it ..now that starline has started making brass. Even better! D

  14. #14
    Boolit Mold
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    Uncle Dino, yes I have to agree with you on the 357 Maximum. This cartridge in a rifle performs well above its pay grade both in terms of accuracy and knockdown. Big hogs go down hard at reasonable ranges and I have never had to track a deer more than 20 yards. Just a hoot to shoot as well. This will be my 2nd MGM barrel in 357 Max. I had in an Encore with fancy furniture and it shot so well a hunting buddy would never leave me alone about selling it. I finally succumbed and look forward to sorting out the G2 as well. Hope your daughter loves it this season!
    Thanks for the information on swaging. I would like to get into this but it seems to be a dark art. I have talked with both Corbin brothers a few years ago but both in their own way just couldn't make it seem like I was not investing in the space program to build a new Mars rocket just to get a simple swaged 44 magnum bullet. Your 357 Max bullets have me intrigued to start thinking about swaging all over again. As I am committed to the Max could you lead me towards what dies I need and where to purchase them to get started to produce something like those fine looking bullets?
    I thank you in advance for your reply, truly.

  15. #15
    Boolit Buddy uncle dino's Avatar
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    Exit I run mostly Corbin h dies ..but this particular point form I had Brian Thurner make for me..BT sniper. For reloading press dies, he does a very nice job. The biggest challenge will be a jacket supply. Some members here are using .380 brass. I would cast the cores. Any 30 caliber mold in 150-165 range would work well..depending on jacket weight and desired bullet weight. So. 1. Core mold. (Or lead wire and cutter) 2. core swage (optional if your core weight is close) 3. Core seat die. 4. Point form die. 5. Possibly jacket prep dies, for bullet brass, or draw dies as needed to obtain proper size jackets. Feel free to pm me with any questions you may have. D

  16. #16
    Boolit Mold
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    uncle dino, thanks for the information. I will contact BT sniper and/or Corbins to try to get together a "starter set" to get going. I have read posts about using .380 cases as a jacket for this caliber but how is the accuracy using these cases compared with bullets using more conventional jackets?

  17. #17
    Boolit Buddy uncle dino's Avatar
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    I have not used cases for jackets. So I cannot comment. But many here claim great performance and accuracy..maybe some of the guys who have can chime in. In my opinion, drawing down a case for a jacket is better than expanding a case for a jacket. So it may be a good deal. D

  18. #18
    Boolit Mold
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    D, good point regarding the differences about swaging "up" as opposed to drawing/swaging down. Makes sense to me from a conceptual standpoint to me the neophyte swager. Hoping others might weigh in. I will take you up on the offer of a PM, thanks.
    exit

  19. #19
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    Without getting into a debate about scrap brass jackets vs. commercial jackets all I can attest to is the accuracy I have gotten from the bullets I have made from scrap brass. A few examples that come to mind in my personal shooting that would represent anything similar to a .357 bullet made from scrap brass would be 40 cal bullets made from 9mm brass shot from my 40-308, 30 cal bullet made from 5.7 brass shot from my 300 WM and most recently 510 BMG bullets made from 7.5x55 brass. The 40 cal bullets shot a 3 shot group of 1.75" at 300 yrds for me, the 30 cal 5.7s shot several groups under 1/2" and closer to 1/4" at 100 yrds and the 50 BMg shot 1" at 200 and 6" at 600. I suspect the accuracy would have been even better with a true quality commercial jacket but for my needs at the time shooting the rounds mentioned here the accuracy was way and beyond anything I had ever expected from bullets made from scrap brass. (got pics posted here in various threads of all those groups mentioned)

    As for the .357/.358 cal bullets I have made a few with both the base of a 223rem case as well as some 380ACP brass. Using the 223rem was fairly easy to draw down and when paired with a 93 grain 32 cal cast boolit made an awesome looking 145 grain JHP bullet that I imagine would have been awesome in any .357 mag application, I mean there is almost 60 grains worth of jacket there and that solid base would keep on going, driving deep into the target making it a pretty impressive sounding game bullet. But at the moment I have not shot any .357 bullets, have many customers that have. I did just acquire a 35 Whelen AI with a long 28" barrel that I will certainly be testing and shooting .358 bullets made from 223rem brass in weights from 200-300 grains and I expect great things.


    Don't know much more to say, any of the 357 mags or 358 riffles should do very well shooting a bullet made from scrap brass if assembled correctly.


    Man the list goes on to as far as what caliber I have shot with bullets made from scrap brass.......... 375 H&H did very well with bullets made from 223rem, I will be testing 338 bullets made from scrap 223rem, even 30 cals from 223 is possible. I acquired a lot of 223rem blanks for scrap price so I have a lot of uses for it. And some others that I have and haven't shot yet, 44s from 40 S&W, 45s from 40 S&W .458s from 45 ACP, 475s from 45 ACP, .500 from 45ACP does very well, the list is almost endless as there are still many I haven't mentioned like all the bullets smaller then 30 cal, but.....


    I tend to see a pattern even in the bullets I have mentioned here that tends to agree with Dino, a lot of these cases have been "drawn" down first then swaged back up in diameter, and I would agree that it is easier to have the base of the bullet at nominal bullet diameter this way then to expect an extreme jump in bullet diameter from a case that is considerably smaller from the start. For example making a 40 cal from 9mm is easy as the case is already so close, it is even closer with making 44 cal with 40 S&W but making 45 cal from 40 S&W is a bit more of a stretch. Let's see the 40 is .425" and must expand .027 to get to 45 cal. Can be a challenge but not difficult if properly annealed and done with the right tools. Most of us simply attempt to expand the base of the brass like this in the core seat step but if we where to use a simple base punch with a long pin to push the empty case against the flat surface of the core seat die it will fully expand the base to full diameter much easier, yet it is an extra step, I use this technique to expand the 7.5 base from .500" up to .510" for the BMG bullets and it worked very well.

    Anyways just a bunch of rambling here. I say if you can find RCE jackets in the caliber you want buy them and use them with confidence, other wise we are left with few economical choices and one of those is scrap brass for which very good results can be obtained.

    I'm certainly looking forward to Dino's results with these bullets in the field. It is almost as much pride for the maker of the dies as it is for the maker of the bullet seeing his daughter do so well with these bullet he made himself.

    Good hunting and swage on!

    BT
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  20. #20
    Boolit Mold
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    BT and Dino, thanks for the information. BT I will be contacting you. Dino, best of luck to your daughter. Wish there was someone close by who was into swaging. I spent some time on Corbins site as well. Dies that would work in a beefy reloading press seems to be the best place to start.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check