Small steel shot in older guns?

[Mk42gunner]

Never having shot steel shot though anything, (I only went duck hunting a few times before steel became mandatory) I am curious about the new size 7 steel loads in older guns for small game.

My specific question has to do with a Winchester Model 37 in 20 ga that has become my new squirrel gun. It shoots a beautifully tight pattern with lead loads and I really don't want to ruin the bore or choke like I have read about when using the larger sizes of shot for ducks.

Some of the state owned hunting areas are now non-toxic shot only, even for small game. Will this stuff hurt my gun? Or should I just carry the newer interchangeable choked Rem 870?

I guess I should just contact the manufacturer, WW in this case, but I am looking for real world answers not theoretical ones.

Thanks for your time,

Robert

[Outpost75]

I would use bismuth in an older gun, but never steel.

[6pt-sika]

I know a guy or two on the Parker forum that claim to use steel in some of their old doubles as well as their tightly choked old Browning A-5's with no ill effects .

However ................................ , ust because they got away with it some doesn't mean the next time it won't split a barrel be it BB or 7 1/2's .

I load my own for most of my shotgun shooting and for waterfowl I load Bismuth . Granted Bismuth is way more expensive then steel but most of the guns I use are Damascus or very nice old SxS's that I DO NOT want to hurt .

Seems to me RIO or Fiochi are making fairly decently priced Bismuth factory loads for the 20 gauge .

[Mk42gunner]

I appreciate the answers, not what I wanted to hear; but it does agree with my thinking. I would hate to ruin this old gun, it isn't really anything special, just a well made working man's gun made from steel and walnut that just so happens to fit me well.

I've been kind of thinking about setting up to make bismuth shot, this gives me a good excuse.

Now to be on the lookout for a 20 gauge loader, I don't really want to use the old Lee whack-a-mole after thirty plus years.

Robert

[6pt-sika]

I appreciate the answers, not what I wanted to hear; but it does agree with my thinking. I would hate to ruin this old gun, it isn't really anything special, just a well made working man's gun made from steel and walnut that just so happens to fit me well.

I've been kind of thinking about setting up to make bismuth shot, this gives me a good excuse.

Now to be on the lookout for a 20 gauge loader, I don't really want to use the old Lee whack-a-mole after thirty plus years.

Robert

FWIW , to get set up to make Bismuth shot is more then likely gonna cost you a good bit more then just buying some . Now with that being said I do not know if you can buy ready made Bismuth in #7 shot I am pretty sure however you can get it in #6 or #5 .

[6pt-sika]

Actually there are three things you can use in place of steel .

The Bismuth as already mentioned .

Nice Shot that has become hard as of late to get your hands on .

And finally ITX that's sold by BPI .

I only have experience with Bismuth and the last I purchased was #1 , bought 6.6 pounds and it cost me $185 last year . Same place has the same stuff now but for $225 . I'd actually like to have some in #4 as I might branch out after ducks this year but at those prices I'll just use my goose loads for the ducks as well .

[Mk42gunner]

To my mind #5 or #6 shot would be a lot better for squirrels than anything finer.

I have fired an awful lot of sixes at squirrels over the years, I like fives better but they are a lot harder to find in factory loads, even thirty years ago.

Twenty five pounds of shot would last me for years, using it an ounce or so per shot. Especially if I only use it on Conservation owned land.

Robert

[Cap'n Morgan]

The smaller size steel will not hurt your gun. I shot a lot of 7/8 ounce #7-1/2 in several Damascus barreled hammer guns without any problems. Once you get to the larger sizes, like #2 and larger I would be more careful, especially with high speed loads and tight chokes. I've seen a beautiful Browning Supposed full/full where the barrels and rib had separated at the muzzle due to steel shot.

[opos]

I have a Remington 48 Sportsman...did some checking..told by many that steel shot in a full choke older gun is an absolute nono...I don 't hunt so lead is not an issue....I can shoot 1 1/8 oz 2 3/4" shells with Lead in 6 or 7 1/2 with no issues at all...Remington had said ok to steel a couple of years back and have since cautioned no steel in older guns..

[skeettx]

http://www.cabelas.com/product/KENT-...th%26CQ_st%3Db

[Fishman]

In my experience, steel 7s are too light even for dove. They are barely the equivalent of lead 9s. You will need at least steel 6s if you plan to shoot anything besides Clay birds.

[6pt-sika]

The smaller size steel will not hurt your gun. I shot a lot of 7/8 ounce #7-1/2 in several Damascus barreled hammer guns without any problems. Once you get to the larger sizes, like #2 and larger I would be more careful, especially with high speed loads and tight chokes. I've seen a beautiful Browning Supposed full/full where the barrels and rib had separated at the muzzle due to steel shot.

The smaller size steel will not hurt your gun. I shot a lot of 7/8 ounce #7-1/2 in several Damascus barreled hammer guns without any problems. Once you get to the larger sizes, like #2 and larger I would be more careful, especially with high speed loads and tight chokes. I've seen a beautiful Browning Supposed full/full where the barrels and rib had separated at the muzzle due to steel shot.

While you may very well be correct in your opinion , ANY steel shot has the POTENTIAL to score the barrel or possibly even bridging in the choke area and splitting the barrel .

Suffice to say unless it's a life or death situation I don't ever plan to use steel in any of my fixed choke guns .

[Cap'n Morgan]

Suffice to say unless it's a life or death situation I don't ever plan to use steel in any of my fixed choke guns .

We don't have much choice where I live but to use steel shot. I shoot somewhere between 3000-4000 clay birds every year using nothing but 7/8 and 1 ounce steel and at least 500 rounds of high speed steel loads in #3 and #2 steel and have done so for more than two decades. I have never had any problems (except for a chipped tooth), but then again I never use chokes tighter than modified.

[OnHoPr]

Opinions, Opinions. Concerns, Concerns. If you get the gist of my opening I will say an Opinion. What is the choke on the gun? Like Fishman said those 5 or 6 Steels @ what velocity is really not going to be the most lethal on a big ole Fox squirrel in the tippy top of the canopy of a Shag Bark Hickory tree no matter what the pattern on paper says. If it is a Mod or more open you should get away with shooting #4s through it. Though, it (may/should) not damage the barrel in bulges or splits, depending on the wad construction it may mar the inside a bit. If you are really in love and concerned with it, don't. If you appreciate it for being a decent working man's gun and want to go hunting with it to bust a few squirrels nostalgically with a box or two a year, go for it. There are also the alternatives that 6pt-sika mention. With the 5s & 6s you are going to have to be closer than with lead,. Then with steel depending on how the choke worked with the load might be blown or real tight putting a lot of bbs in the meat. If you go the Bismuth route 6s will hit like 7s or 7.5s and the 5s will hit like 6s or 6.5s lead. I am not sure about the Nice shot ITXs on how they would perform on a big ole fox squirrel.


Edit Correction: Was misinformed about Bismuth, Steel, and Lead comparison. Bismuth is lighter than lead but heavier than steel. I might have had Hevishot numbers get misconfigured in my senility.

[Mk42gunner]

What you say makes sense to me. I guess when I go to those places that require non-toxic shot I will use the fugly interchangeable choked 870 Express, or a rifle.

No sentimental value with this old gun, I bought it this summer at an auction and have only shot it about four times. It is unmarked as to constriction, but it is definitely full choked. Maybe extra full with plastic wads.

What really got me interested was the fact that the local Wallyworld has 20 ga #7 steel field loads for $5.48 a box. Too bad we can't get good effective, safe for all guns loads, for that price.

Robert

[RMc]

I agree with skeettx that purchasing a few boxes of Kent Factory Bismuth loads would be the simple solution for an occasional squirrel hunt with your vintage full choke Winchester 37.

On the other hand, should you choose to load your own bismuth loads for the 20 bore, I suggest picking up a copy of Tom Roster's Buffered Lead & Bismuth Shotshell Reloading Manual available online from from Precision Reloading.