Greetings! - BHN and Bo0lit Size Questions

[Apples]

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Howdy!

First post here. Some of you may recognize me from THR (200Apples there).

Before I chuck some commercially-cast 215-gr SWC bo0lits into some once-fired .41 Starline brass filled with a starting load of 7.5 grains Unique (and using large pistol primers) for my 4-5/8" Old Model Blackhawk, I have some questions about Brinell numbers, bullet size, and bullet lube and coated bullets. I'm looking to run these near 900 - 1000 fps.

I have two different bullets in 500 count quantities.

1. Hunters Supply .41 cal 215 gr SWC size .410, factory-lubed. BHN 15

2. Missouri Bullet Co .41 cal 215 gr SWC size .411 HiTek coated, not lubed. BHN 18

I have not slugged the bore on my Blackhawk nor have I measured it's barrel throat.

I am learning that there is a relationship between Brinell Hardness Numbers and chamber pressure as measured in CUP in regards to barrel leading.

I'd like to know if I need to lube the coated MBC or does the coating serve as bullet lube?

Of the two slugs in my possession, would the slightly softer BHN 15 in .410 better "slug up"/obturate to effectively seal against the bore? or should I not use these uncoated .410s until I determine my barrel dimensions? Should I not use the coated .411s either? until I determine the barrel measure...

Lastly, please set me straight if I have asked any odd questions or if you think I might be putting any cart before any horse... I am a new reloader and using an RCBS Rock Chucker and RCBS dies.

Thanks for your time and I'm very glad to be here.

[Scharfschuetze]

Welcome aboard Apples!

Your projected load of 7.5 grain of Unique and the 210/215 grain SWC projectiles is basically the old "Police Load" for the 41 Magnum. I shot a lot of this design and weight boolit in my Model 58 during my LE days and I still load it (8.0 grains Unique) and it's a good load.

You shouldn't have to worry about your alloys as they should work well as is if your bore is the standard .410" diameter. I've shot a lot of commercial boolits with conventional lube like yours sized at .410" without any issues. i can't comment on the "Hi-Tech" lubed boolits as I don't have any experience with those in the .41, although I like the idea that they are .411" diameter.

I cast my RCBS 41-210-SWC boolits much softer than the commercially cast boolits and at less than 1,000 fps (like your 7.5 grain load) there is no sign of leading when using a COWW alloy. My normal load is 8.0 grains of Unique. At the low pressure level of a 7.5 or 8.0 grain Unique load, they may obturate a bit when going through the forcing cone. I don't have any leading at that point where it is common with hard cast boolits so I guess they must be doing something right.

Bottom line: You should be good to go.

PS. When not using a Dillon press, I often use the same set up as you are using for my .41 Magnum loads.

[NC_JEFF]

I suggest you slug the barrel and the cylinder and see how you shape from the start. Try and feel for a barrel constriction where its screwed into the frame, Ruger has some history with this happening. You may need cylinders reamed for consistency, maybe need some lapping in the barrel. If your gonna stay with starting loads, softer Boolits are just fine, assuming they aren't undersized. If you need half a thousandth or so on those .410 slugs you can gain size by powder coating them. There is a world of info on this site about the questions your asking, take full advantage of it.
Welcome to the site.
JD

[Apples]

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Bottom line: You should be good to go.

I was hoping to hear that! At least I can load up a few of the uncoated .410s until I learn more about the coated pills.

Thanks for your post!

I suggest you slug the barrel and the cylinder and see how you shape from the start...

I know of the practice, yes; but I am not now equipped to do so. Would you be kind enough to suggest some of the fundamental tools and components I would need to do this? Sincere thanks!

Try and feel for a barrel constriction where its screwed into the frame...

I am only recently aware of this possibility. Thanks for the heads up! I'll have another look.

There is a world of info on this site about the questions your asking, take full advantage of it.
Welcome to the site.

Again, thank you! and I am presently reading the ".41 Magnum / 41 Special Load Data Center" thread as an appetizer.

Much appreciated, gentlemen.

[Apples]

Both the .410" cast Hunters Supply 215 gr SWC and the jacketed .410" Barnes HP in this photo fit the chamber throats in a most delightful manner. I have yet to slug the bore.

There is no visible evidence of any constriction in the barrel at the point where the barrel is threaded into the frame, but if any exists I understand I may always fire-lap.

Thanks heaps, fellas! Looking forward to pressing a few components together, now!

[Apples]

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Busy weekend. Only had time to set up my powder measure and my dies... then build 10 cartridges to the recipe in the first post: .41 caliber 215 gr LSWC, commercially-cast, factory-lubed, .410 size... over *exactly* 7.5 grains Unique with a good roll crimp.

I can't shoot them (and I hope to build more, first, along with some 8.0 gr loads) until next weekend. I'm happy to have just rolled my first ten cartridges!

Thanks for your help!

[Scharfschuetze]

Lookin' good Apples.

I look forward to the range results.

[Apples]

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Weyulp, I've been doin' some overtime at work and with a shift change every week thrown in for good measure. I have not yet made it to the range but I have rolled a few more rounds.

I'm getting a case trimmer, too, so that all my resized brass can be made exactly the same length for consistent seating and crimping results. I won't need to trim every time I reload but I do want to start with consistent-length case length.

Posting this news just in case anyone wondered where one of the new guys disappeared to. Haha.

[Ken in Iowa]

Welcome to the forum Apples!

It appears that you are off to a great start.

We loaded commercial cast for many years on a single stage press.

[Scharfschuetze]

Glad to see ya still hangin' around Apples. Looks like you're trackin' well with your 41 project.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Welcome Apples,
I just seen this thread for the first time. I am a big fan of the 41 mag. It sounds like you have a pretty good base of knowledge about reloading cast bullets, which is more than many have the first time they load for cast.

You've been given some good advice for...if you have some problems shooting these bullets, But I wouldn't worry about cylinder throats and barrel thread constriction or constriction caused by roll stamping the barrel (all of which Ruger has had some issues with) until you have a problem, like lead fouling. Your gun will probably be fine. Shoot some of your loads and report back. There is no sense to measuring up everything, if there isn't a problem. Also .411 or .412 is what most of us size our cast boolits for 41 mag guns.

Lastly, when you find out how cheap shooting can be, when you cast your own, we will be hear to help you out with that.
Jon

[GLynn41]

reloads look good---they will pleasant to shoot--have fun --let us know how they go

[rhouser]

What happened to Apples? I was getting all wound up watching him prep for his first cast bullet range trip. Made me want to drag out my old Ruger .41 Bisley Hunter. It was a pretty good shooter as I recall. I haven't even looked at it in years. It is one of those I won't ever part with though.

Apples, how did your first round go?

rch

[Apples]

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Howdy!

I appreciate the interest (I like to see how other folks' load developments progress, too). See Post #8.

My Redding case trimmer was waiting on the porch when I got home from work, yesterday! so now I can continue to load. Hope to make it to the local indoor range soon when I'm not so hammered from the wild work schedule. Gotta be grateful for work, that's for sure.

[Apples]

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The indoor range was closed today... so I drove the 25 miles to an outdoor range I like. I didn't expect it to be empty, but, boy howdy. Found a spot on the pistol side and laid out my .41 Old Model Blackhawk, a newer Model 60-15 and another Smith, a 351PD. 35 yards is a bit much for a .22 mag "belly" gun, but, hey; what can you do. I might have heard a steel plate ring once or twice, but, vewwy, vewwy, softly...

Meanwhile, man! Yes! I had the good fortune of hearing, on average, 3 of every 5 shots ring steel with my .41 reloads. 35 yards, offhand. The gun did see some leading about 1/3 to 1/2 way down the barrel; nothing a few hundred passes with a bronze brush and some Hoppes didn't clean. Sheesh. To be fair, however, the 7.5, 7.7 and 8.0 grain Unique may have been underpowered, and the Midway USA-sourced Hunters Supply 215 gr LSWC were sized at .410"... I gotta feelin' they should be .411.

At least I have a batch of Missouri Bullets' Hi Tek-coated .411 215 gr SWC to load up for my next batch. I might have to wait another week before I crank on the press. I'm waiting for the correct pilots for my Redding case trimmer. I'm also going to load 8.3, 8.5, 8.8 and 9.0-grain loads. There are an awful lot of .41 shooters that love their 9.0-grain Unique loads.

I also shot some .41 plated TCs that are supposed to run about 1000 fps... about 50 of those and 70 of my reloads. Then there was 50 rds of .38+P in the Model 60, along with 20 .38 Special. I ran about 5 seven-shot cyls full of .22 mag in the 351PD...

Two guys with Desert Eagles were next to me and expressed interest in the old Blackhawk. We traded guns for a few rounds. The .44 Mag DE felt just like one of my 1911s... just bigger and a little heavier. hee! It was a first time for them shooting an SA pistol. Good times.

All in all, though, a great day. Good weather, good folks, good shootin and once back at home, a whole lotta scrubbin... but the barrel's clean, now, and ready for the next batch!