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Thread: Stevens 44

  1. #81
    Boolit Mold
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    stevens load data

    can you please tell what powder loads you are using in 17wsm converted ammo and did you reform the necks or cut them down.. ive got 55gr. .257 cast bullets from gunbroker. and test fired a cut down case yesterday in my 44 with Lees smallest scoop .17cc? of trail boss. sounded like a bb gun lol. couldn't of been going vary fast
    Last edited by samaddy1; 07-18-2018 at 03:28 PM.

  2. #82
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
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    Long story short: I'm modifying the .17WSM brass to duplicate the full length of the .25 Stevens cartridge. This is very involved, since the brass is not annealed, nor can it be, so expanding the neck is a royal PITA. It can be done, but yields have been poor. I'm using a 65 grain bought-in bullet, and the load I've used is 2.2 grains of Herco, or 1.7 grains Bullseye. Data is thin on the ground, I've been working through knee surgery and recovery since April. Only a dozen or so rounds in the back yard I'm keeping these just barely subsonic, partly for neighborhood reasons. 1.9 grains Bullseye went supersonic.

    Your 1.7 of Trail Boss in a full length case should yield about 900 fps, according to my Quickload model.

    Using a short case isn't optimal for the .25 Stevens, since it's not a heeled bullet like the .22 LR and .32 Rimfire. The chamber is therefor much larger than the bullet. From a short case, the bullet has to traverse some distance floating in the discharge gases before it encounters the rifling, during which time it is unguided, and will more likely than not hit the throat crooked. I know that several ammunition makers sold .25 "Shorts", but Stevens themselves said they should not be used in Stevens rifles, and that's why.

    I don't know of any rifle, period or not, that was purposely chambered for the .25 Short, but I've been sorely tempted make one. That would eliminate the hassle of expanding the .17WSM necks, and with modern powders the reduced powder space won't be any issue. (Remember that the .25 Stevens was originally a black powder number, that's why the case is so long.) Maybe next winter. I could then salvage all the cases that split when trying to expand them, and get some use out of them.
    Cognitive Dissident

  3. #83
    Boolit Mold
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    25 Stevens "MEDIUM" Rimfire: a viable alternative

    I started this venture expecting to use 22 hornet cases and or 5.7x28 fn cases and have about 30 22 hornet cases formed so far but have not modified a block to centerfire yet so started experimenting with the 17wsm as a parent case .While the 25 Stevens "MEDIUM" Rimfire made from a reduced length 17 wsm case is not ideal as Chev Williams pointed out because the 25rf does not use a healed bullet, their for the bullet has to travel a bit in the chamber loosely, surrounded by gasses before encountering the rifled bore. the stevens short had a .599 case length and the long a 1.125 case length and .251 65 grain bullets. early barrels were .251 diameter and at some point appears went to .255 barrels so slug your barrels
    Let me state that I am new to reloading and this is my first venture. My venture into the 25 rimfire begins with a stevens 44 that slugs at .255 with a worn bore, not great but not bad. To date I have loaded 10 rounds with two different case lengths from the parent 17 wsm case, they are 7 .970-.980 cases cut at the bottom of the of the shoulder and 3 1.080-1.070 cases cut at the top of the shoulder. I am using .25 caliber (.257) hollow point cast lead bullets 55 gr and sized and lubed to .258. I am using a gift of some Trail Boss as my powder. unless somebody knows what powder Winchester uses in their 17 wsm's as I have a small supply after pulling bullets for my cases.
    I have shot 10 rounds out the side door of my garage at a large tree I hung my target on, distance of 25 feet, with me using the side of the door frame to steady my rifle and open sights through trifocal lens glasses. The sight picture I get is always fuzzy at some part of my alignment picture, sucks getting old lol. of the 10 rounds 7 are touching .080 wide by .060 tall. group with three fliers. The first flier was a .970 case .17cc/.8gr of powder and was left of group 1 inch sounded like a bb gun. the next 6 shots were all .970 cases with .3cc/2.3gr of powder with one flyer left of group 3/4 inch, these were subsonic. The last three were 1.075 case lengths with .5cc/2.3gr of powder these 3 all cracked out the barrel so went above subsonic with 1 flier 1 inch above the group. All cases seamed to expand to chamber diameter and seal the gases with the .3 cc loads about 1/3 way from top of the case and the hotter .5 cc loads 1/2 to 3/4 from top of case
    AS Chev Willams pointed out this not an ideal solution because the bullet does not fit tight in the chamber, but one that I for one am finding viable at this point with minimal amount of case prep just having to pull cut and trim to length then expand the case neck to .257 ideally for the bullets I am using. at this point my methods are crude and unrefined as I am learning the whole loading process and attribute the last two fliers more to my case prep and bullet seating . all my expander tools so far have been home made and am using a 25 acp die set to load with.. I found the longer case length harder to form concentrically. maybe going to a 2 or three step sizing process with a 22 hornet fl die to open first to .22 then a .257 Roberts neck sizing ball/rod for final
    For now I have 25 cases at .1000 case length cut just above the shoulder and formed out to .257 neck diameter ready for more tests, these are more consistently trimed and sized than my learning curve first 10 attempts. At a point in the futre I plan on repriming the once shot rf cases. Four solution mixes can be had for $20 PrimeAll I believe is the source.

    a hearty thanks goes out to Chev Williams for allowing us to follow his 25 cal adventures on this forum

    ps is their a secret to uploading pictures I attemted several times but it keeps but keeps telling me unable to is a jpg file
    Last edited by samaddy1; 07-24-2018 at 01:38 PM.

  4. #84
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
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    Well, you certainly could have picked an easier project for your first reloading venture! Kudos!

    Picture files have to be below a certain size to upload successfully. If you are using your camera on a high resolution setting your files may be too big.

    300 MB and 800 x 600 pixels are the limits.

    Even my "new" 44 is having trouble getting these to fire, due to the thick brass. I'm getting misfires about half the time. A second strike always fires them, though. This even with a new mainspring. How are you doing in this regard?
    Cognitive Dissident

  5. #85
    Boolit Mold
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    I have had no problems but my action really really closes closes tight and makes a significant dent in the case

  6. #86
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
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    Mine locks up nice and tight, too, but now I'm thinking to check how well fitted my extractor is. It was not one of Stevens' better ideas to have the rimfires' firing pin hit on top of it. The old models where the extractor was at 7 o'clock are better in this regard. In the 1930s when the Model 417 target model was introduced, they moved the firing pin to 9 o'clock, so it would have solid metal behind the cartridge rim.
    Cognitive Dissident

  7. #87
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    If I remember Correctly from the Reloading .32 Rimfire Thread, PTL case rims are about .045" thick with The case wall about .015" thick. When Fired, the Indent measures about .030" thick so it seems the rim is crushed to the point that the two walls are solidly together.

    IF the .17 Rimfire cases are similar, then an indent of about .030" thick would also indicate the two wall thicknesses are solidly crushed together.
    Perhaps the .17 rimfire is drawn somewhat 'harder' than the typical PTL blank case?
    IF this is so, it would help explain Phil's misfire problem.
    Another possible cause would be the firing pin tip contour and exposure.

    As the Stevens Firing pin is at an angle to the Breech Face, it is hitting the rim at an angle rather than 'square on' so may NOT be fully crushing the rim and primer mix.

    Best Regards,
    Chev. William
    Last edited by Chev. William; 07-25-2018 at 09:05 PM.

  8. #88
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
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    Changing the shape of the tip occurred to me, too. Last night I pulled the pin out and stoned off the sides to make it a "chisel" shape. Viola! Only get one misfire in ten, now, (using up cases spoiled in the neck-expanding, of which I have far too many).

    Measuring the fully indented rim, I get about .053 +/- .001, suggesting the the brass in the rim must be .025 thick. When I say fully indented, that's four strikes on top of one another to make sure it's crushed all the way. The virgin rim measures about .068" thickness. An unfired UMC copper case cartridge measures .057

    Found an interesting feature in this one. Some long-ago gunsmith made a new firing pin for it, (well and truly hardened, too), and in the process replaced the cross-pin that retains the firing pin with a neat little shoulder screw!
    Cognitive Dissident

  9. #89
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    What does the Case sidewall thickness Measure?
    Is it also in the same range as the inferred Rim wall thickness?

    Chev. William

  10. #90
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
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    One .17WSM sample, cut back to .750 OAL, measures .015" side wall. Sectioning the head with a file, I get about .023 using a caliper. I could do that better with a 3/4" long pin and a micrometer, but I'll have to make the pin. Nothing handy in my junk drawers.

    The copper UMC sample measures about .011" wall.
    Last edited by uscra112; 07-26-2018 at 01:30 AM.
    Cognitive Dissident

  11. #91
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    Hmm. That infers that the .17 cases are Drawn with a thicker base than the upper sidewalls. That would also explain the thicker rim walls.
    Also, it would also help explain your misfire experiences.
    Chev. William

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check