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Thread: Stevens 44

  1. #41
    Boolit Buddy blackbahart's Avatar
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    Its a winchester m1885 made in 1908 Click image for larger version. 

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  2. #42
    Boolit Buddy blackbahart's Avatar
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    Its a winchester m1885 made in 1908 Click image for larger version. 

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  3. #43
    Boolit Buddy blackbahart's Avatar
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    having a lil trouble attaching pics ,but I got her
    22 hornet case reformed to 25 stevens dimensions /4.5 gr unique and 85 gr .258 cast bullet
    Last edited by blackbahart; 12-02-2017 at 10:28 PM.

  4. #44
    Boolit Master marlinman93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uscra112 View Post
    Been to that well, as I have been fooling with a way to make new .25 Stevens rimfire cartridges by reforming .17 WMR. It turns out that the .251 number is wrong. I believed it, too. It has been widely propagated by an error in Barnes. Every .25 Stevens RF I have, (and I now have four), has ~.257 groove diameter. Breaking down some old ammo confirms that the bullets were .257 to .258.
    Don't have any old Stevens rifles, but I do have a Ballard #3 with a Stevens bore! The gun is in .25 Stevens RF, and marked "Re-rifled by J Stevens Arms" under the forearm, and "25 RF" in Stevens script. This particular bore is like new and measures .255", groove diameter. I also own 6-7 boxes of late mfg. Cannuck .25 Stevens RF ammo. Bullets I pulled to check diameter on measured .2554" and shoot extremely accurate in my little Ballard. They are a hollow base design bullet, so maybe made to bump up and seal well if fired in a larger .257" bore?
    My Ballard also has a full length Stevens scope that I'd guess might have been purchased when the rebore was done at Stevens?


  5. #45
    Boolit Buddy blackbahart's Avatar
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    nice ballard
    as usual

  6. #46
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
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    Well, I just took apart two Canuck cartridges, one long and one short, and sure enough THEY both measure .255 on the bullet. So I sacrificed one of my rare blackpowder cartridges, Remington labeled on the box. Also .255". So my usually reliable source for the .257 bullet dimension must have been measuring something else. I carefully cut away the crimp in my lathe, so I think I'm getting the actual diameter on the grooves, not something distorted by yanking it through the crimp.

    This whole thing is getting weirder and weirder.
    Cognitive Dissident

  7. #47
    Boolit Master Hooker53's Avatar
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    Uscra112, had to go back and read your #34 post. That's just unreal and the reason I say that is The only time I ever double charged, (I think) a case was one of my 25-20 WCF. It actually blew the primer. It was being loaded a very low charge anyway but I consider myself lucky. If it wasn't double charged it was the first time I ever had a blown primer. What made me really think was, I have a ritual I use on my loading block to keep this from happening and if that's not enough, I take a flashlight and look over into every case in the lineup. It was also before I owned my Lyman auto powder measure and all loads was hand measured and trickled. I'm still in the "load 10 test rounds" and try them stead of loading a complete ammo box of 50. Ha. On your above post #46, it goes to show ya the closer you think you are, the farther away you just got. Ha. I have no doubt that you will solve the Weirdness.

    Roy
    Hooker53
    Last edited by Hooker53; 12-03-2017 at 01:47 PM. Reason: Words

  8. #48
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
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    Mine didn't pierce the primer, but it fell right out of the case when I opened the action, and I had to drive the case out with a cleaning rod. But it had no effect on the gun. NOT that another one like that wouldn't! What it did show is that the 44 doesn't necessarily blow up under a heavy load. Hoop strength of barrel and action was sufficient, breechblock held, frame behind it held. I should caveat that this was a fresh rebarrel job, and I had taken pains to make the breechblock fit back against the frame shoulders on lockup. It had a new link made from O-1 flat stock, (but not hardened), and the new-made firing pin was a good fit. The .25-20 cartridge is small diameter. An old, worn gun would not have fared so well. I don't want to think about a heavy charge in a .32-40 or .38-55.

    (MY failing was letting myself be distracted by onlookers while loading at the range. Usually I have the club to myself on weekdays, but this time a gaggle of AR-15 types had shown up, and were curious. I had a single case in the loading block, and charged it twice during a long conversation. AA#9 is not bulky enough to overflow if a second charge is poured in.)

    Bent Ramrod's post #27 gives you the exact method I use to face off the end of a barrel to get a proper lockup. I will only add that I FIRST make sure that there is enough play in the breechblock pivot to allow the block to shift to the rear and make contact with the frame shoulders. Stevens often finished the gun so that all the thrust had to be taken on the pivot screw, especially on the later rimfires. This needs to be checked with a VERY thin feeler. I use .0005" thick cellophane.

    I also like Bent-Ramrod's idea of the addition to the lever. Stevens actually tried something like this, but never carried it to production. Too fussy to fit, I imagine.
    Last edited by uscra112; 12-03-2017 at 02:41 PM.
    Cognitive Dissident

  9. #49
    Boolit Master Hooker53's Avatar
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    That's good info on the feeler gage. I will pull mine down and check everything this winter before shooting it again. I also thought that Bent Ramrods improvement to the screw was a very good idea as well and will do that. I hate to admit it, but my 44 was made up of parts that's I could find at the time and never knew I was headed into the New World of 25-20 single shot. The barrel was sold to me off of another site and was sold as a 25-20 WCF. When I tried to chamber the later, you can imagine what went through my head. Lol.

    Roy
    Hooker53

  10. #50
    Boolit Master marlinman93's Avatar
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    I would wonder how the accuracy might be with the .255" bullets and larger .257" bore? But if the hollow base allows the bullets to expand and seal, they might still shoot well.

  11. #51
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    Uscra112,
    After reading back through the posts on this thread, I will need to revisit slugging the .25 Stevens Barrels in my "collection" as I had originally slugged them and read them as .249"-252" Groove diameters with Lands in the .246"-.248" range.

    I also have one Favorite Action, a 1915 version, that has a Breech Block that fits Tightly against The Receiver shoulders when it is closed. In my case there seems to be no clearance at lock up but it does move freely once out of lock. It is presently in my gunsmith's hands getting a CF firing pin fitted to it (been there about a year now as it is a 'low budget job').

    I also have a few incomplete Model 44 Actions that are slowly being pieced together to be resurrected into firing rifles again as a gathering of parts over time. One Model 44 is also at the gunsmith's for conversion to CF. It will have interchangeable barrels for .25 Stevens as Cf and .32 Colt.

    In the interim I have a Custom converted Ruger Single Eight in .25ACP with a 10-5/8" barrel (12 inches from muzzle to recoil plate on frame) made from a Used Convertible Single Six.
    The heaviest Charge/Load I have fired through it so far is 3.0 grains of BE-86 behind a 63 grain Lead FN bullet from a Nickel plated G.F.L. .25ACP case (.612' long) and .905" COAL.
    The Muzzle rise was about twice that of Factory PPU .25ACP 50 grain FMJ ammo fired the same day.

    Best Regards,
    Chev. William
    Last edited by Chev. William; 12-04-2017 at 03:30 PM.

  12. #52
    Boolit Master Hooker53's Avatar
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    Chev. You sound like me. Several piles of projects to work on and one little place to stand and work on them. Lol. Good to see ya around!!!!

    Roy
    Hooker53

  13. #53
    Boolit Master
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    Hooker53,

    Laughing, yes I do have many "projects" in many "subjects" spread around me. Unfortunately as a retired person I have much more Time but little money to support the "projects" with.

    Best Regards,
    Chev. William

  14. #54
    Boolit Master Hooker53's Avatar
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    Chev. I understand what you're saying here. I have just two more years before I walk off the job at least a full time one anyway and I'm already seeing stuff I want to buy NOW and stock up on it so I can have it for awhile anyway. E. I. All the parts for my projects we are talking about. Lol.

    Roy
    Hooker53

  15. #55
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    44 Mainsprings Available

    As long as we’re on the general subject of Stevens 44s, it may be of interest to some that S&S Firearms sells aftermarket mainsprings for the 44 for $27 a pop plus shipping. Such is my dislike of spring making that I bought three of them, and they fit the two actions I’m restoring just like the original ones. Nice and “springy,” too. These are the type that abuts the stud in the tang; no hole for a screw.

    Some guy had been offering Favorite mainsprings that could be used in 44s in a pinch, but he ran out of them several years ago and decided not to offer them any more. S&S mostly offers parts and stuff for obsolete military guns and re-enactors; glad to see their offerings are branching out this way.

    The third spring is a fallback for the ones I’ve done for other actions. I have to admit that I only get something resembling a spring about once every four tries, each “try” meaning all the measuring, cutting off, drilling (if necessary), bending (hot or cold, as directed), shaping, hardening and tempering. Generally, I either get a spring-shaped piece of linguine, or something that breaks after a year’s use.

    Particularly exasperating to me are the writers that heat their springs to a “cherry red,” quench in oil, put the oily spring in the rear driver side hubcap from a 1928 Hupmobile, set the mess on fire, and when it burns out, they have a spring that works right forever. Guess I just can’t find the proper hubcap; that technique never works for me.

  16. #56
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
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    Wisner's also has that "arch" style spring, listed as a Favorite spring, but it's much too stiff for a Favorite. Spring stock the maker used is about .020 thicker than OEM springs, so it's even stiff in a 44. I've been narrowing them on a belt sander to get what I like.
    Cognitive Dissident

  17. #57
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    I have one Stevens model 44 barrel that is marked ".25 R F" that i have 'slugged' again and it measures .246" bore and .250' groove diameters. I used a fairly new "Lyman" Dial Caliper to measure the slug. the bottom of the barrel is marked "3582(?) 2 L. G." and has a patent date of "APR. 17, 94" on the top flat of the half Octagon. This Barrel has a "6 O'Clock" extractor cut.

    It seems My, and Uscra112 barrels, differ in Bore / Groove dimensions.

    Now I wonder Why? Why would J. Stevens use tow differing Bore and groove dimensions for the "same Cartridge"?

    I have had this barrel chamber reamed to take my wildcat .250ALRM Cartridge which uses .250"-251" diameter bullets in a 1.250" long CF case of .276", or nominal .278", Body diameter (my sizing dies yield a .276" diameter case from my swaging down .22 Hornet cases or 5.7x28mm cases).

    Best Regards,
    Chev. William
    Last edited by Chev. William; 12-14-2017 at 02:17 AM.

  18. #58
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    It may be the “Monday and Friday” syndrome. Stevens rifles were built to a price, and they put all their effort into their barrels, which set many records. Once done, even they could be mismarked, or grabbed out of the wrong stock bins for chambering and fitting. To say nothing of the other parts. It’s amazing that they are as good as they are.

    I have a .32-35 Stevens 107 that has a 0.319” bore, rather than the specified 0.311” diameter. Couldn’t understand why it wouldn’t hit a tea saucer at 50 yards until I put one of my boolits, cast in the mould on my Ideal Tong Tool, into the barrel breech and saw daylight all around it. A switch to the Winchester 0.319” 165-gr boolit for the.32-40, and the accuracy went from dismal to impressive. Somebody likely grabbed the wrong .25 caliber barrel stock for the occasional .25 Rimfire in the same way.

    My 414 came with the forestock and rear sight missing and a hideous job of aftermarket threading on the chamber end of the shortened barrel. Home Depot nuts and bolts fit more precisely than this mess did. I cut the chamber end off, turned the shank to the proper diameter, threaded it correctly, and found it wouldn’t screw into the receiver. I kept deepening the threads and trying the fit. Finally, the thing screwed home, and the fit was as loose and rattly as the original breech was.

    I looked closer in the receiver and realized that it had been bored straight for the barrel, but the tap had been run in for the barrel threads off-center, so unless I annealed and rebored it, any barrel that fit would “laloop” it’s way home. I could see why Harry Pope couldn’t wait to leave the Stevens factory.

    Just to get the parts together, I finished the gun, figuring I’d unload it at the next Gun Show. I fixed it up with an old Weaver scope in Stith mounts, and a short forend with a band and sling swivel, like the one Allyn Tedmon did up in the ‘30’s. Somebody had bored the breechblock pivot hole larger (and off-center), so a new block pin, which was a good fit in the hole, thrust the breechblock against the back of the receiver so the action wouldn’t close. I carefully spotted the back of the block, filed it for a start of a tight fit, and lapped the surfaces together so the action closed easily. Then I did the final fitting of the barrel breech to a nice, snappy closure for the lever. This was a wrench job, of course, just to make it tight. It would have wobbled all over as a takedown. The set screw in the receiver is just a decoration now.

    Since the barrel was off-center, I had to add weld to one side of the extractor to get it under the bore. By this time, I realized that I had a tiger by the tail, but it was too late. I got the extractor in and chambered the barrel with my .22LR Match reamer. I’d never felt a reamer cut like that in any other barrel. It had a very smooth, voluptuous feel to it, and the chips were like the particles you get off steel wool when you use it. I surmised that if the rifling cutter had gone the same way, this would be a fine, smooth barrel, anyway.

    I was still determined to get rid of this misbegotten abortion as soon as possible, but I figured after all this work, I might as well see how a gun that was wrong from the get-go would shoot. That was a mistake. With Wildcat .22s, $9.50 a carton back then, anything on the top of the post of that little Weaver scope was in serious trouble. Until the guys at the local .22 Silhouette matches geared up with good scopes and Space-Gun rifles, I was a major irritation, often doing third or second place against pretty expensive equipment. I would always tell them that I had about $120 in the gun. Anyway, Old “Cattywompus” looks cute, shoots great, and I don’t have the heart to get rid of it.

  19. #59
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bent Ramrod View Post
    It may be the “Monday and Friday” syndrome. Stevens rifles were built to a price, and they put all their effort into their barrels, which set many records. Once done, even they could be mismarked, or grabbed out of the wrong stock bins for chambering and fitting. To say nothing of the other parts. It’s amazing that they are as good as they are.

    I have a .32-35 Stevens 107 that has a 0.319” bore, rather than the specified 0.311” diameter. Couldn’t understand why it wouldn’t hit a tea saucer at 50 yards until I put one of my boolits, cast in the mould on my Ideal Tong Tool, into the barrel breech and saw daylight all around it. A switch to the Winchester 0.319” 165-gr boolit for the.32-40, and the accuracy went from dismal to impressive. Somebody likely grabbed the wrong .25 caliber barrel stock for the occasional .25 Rimfire in the same way.

    My 414 came with the forestock and rear sight missing and a hideous job of aftermarket threading on the chamber end of the shortened barrel. Home Depot nuts and bolts fit more precisely than this mess did. I cut the chamber end off, turned the shank to the proper diameter, threaded it correctly, and found it wouldn’t screw into the receiver. I kept deepening the threads and trying the fit. Finally, the thing screwed home, and the fit was as loose and rattly as the original breech was.

    I looked closer in the receiver and realized that it had been bored straight for the barrel, but the tap had been run in for the barrel threads off-center, so unless I annealed and rebored it, any barrel that fit would “laloop” it’s way home. I could see why Harry Pope couldn’t wait to leave the Stevens factory.

    Just to get the parts together, I finished the gun, figuring I’d unload it at the next Gun Show. I fixed it up with an old Weaver scope in Stith mounts, and a short forend with a band and sling swivel, like the one Allyn Tedmon did up in the ‘30’s. Somebody had bored the breechblock pivot hole larger (and off-center), so a new block pin, which was a good fit in the hole, thrust the breechblock against the back of the receiver so the action wouldn’t close. I carefully spotted the back of the block, filed it for a start of a tight fit, and lapped the surfaces together so the action closed easily. Then I did the final fitting of the barrel breech to a nice, snappy closure for the lever. This was a wrench job, of course, just to make it tight. It would have wobbled all over as a takedown. The set screw in the receiver is just a decoration now.

    Since the barrel was off-center, I had to add weld to one side of the extractor to get it under the bore. By this time, I realized that I had a tiger by the tail, but it was too late. I got the extractor in and chambered the barrel with my .22LR Match reamer. I’d never felt a reamer cut like that in any other barrel. It had a very smooth, voluptuous feel to it, and the chips were like the particles you get off steel wool when you use it. I surmised that if the rifling cutter had gone the same way, this would be a fine, smooth barrel, anyway.

    I was still determined to get rid of this misbegotten abortion as soon as possible, but I figured after all this work, I might as well see how a gun that was wrong from the get-go would shoot. That was a mistake. With Wildcat .22s, $9.50 a carton back then, anything on the top of the post of that little Weaver scope was in serious trouble. Until the guys at the local .22 Silhouette matches geared up with good scopes and Space-Gun rifles, I was a major irritation, often doing third or second place against pretty expensive equipment. I would always tell them that I had about $120 in the gun. Anyway, Old “Cattywompus” looks cute, shoots great, and I don’t have the heart to get rid of it.
    Very good Article on your Experience, it left me smiling!
    Chev. William

  20. #60
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bent Ramrod View Post
    I've modified most of my Stevens 44s, and my Favorite .22s, in this manner.

    Attachment 177030 Attachment 177031

    Addition of metal to the top of the lever so that it props the bottom of the breechblock shut when closed approximates the original specification of the O. W. Horr patent (US 323,936, May 1885) upon which the Ideal Side Plate rifle was based. Having extra metal on the top of the lever to prop the breech block shut when the linkage is overcenter allows the thrust of the cartridge case on the breechblock to be borne by the lever and breechblock screws (or bolts) and the frame, rather than by the lever and breechblock pins and the link. Making new lever and block screws (or bolts) out of drill rod or tool steel may serve to strengthen the breeching further. (It can't hurt, anyway.) The link and its pins then function only to open and shut the breechblock, and have no load bearing function themselves.

    It is a rather tedious to disassemble, spot, file, fit, and reassemble and test to get the lever extension to slide smoothly under the breechblock while still allowing the lever to contact the tang when the breech is closed, and it is obvious that this hand fitting was the reason the Side Plate model was so expensive. However, the home mechanic, if he is careful and takes his time, can accomplish this and amortise the work with the shooting he does afterwards.

    These modifications will not turn a Stevens 44 into a 44-1/2, (or even a 44-1/4 ) but will allow more shots to be fired with the mild loadings suitable to the 44 action before the lever starts to droop. More yet can be fired before the headspace will start to increase.

    When I rebuilt my first Favorite, I made the biggest link that would fit out of tool steel, and lever and link pins (and block and lever screws) out of drill rod, hardened and tempered. Figured I had a gun for the ages, then. One carton of High-Speed .22s and the rims started bursting out the back. I did the lever modification (and went to Standard Velocity) and the gun is still tight a couple of cartons of ammo later. YMMV, of course.
    Could you give a little more detail of this modification? I've got several favorite and 44 actions that are sitting under the bench...
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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check