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Thread: Stevens 44

  1. #21
    Boolit Master marlinman93's Avatar
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    If you have it rechambered to .25-20, and keep the .25 Stevens bore, then you may suffer poor accuracy with bullets for the .25-20WCF! The .25 Stevens RF is a true .25 caliber at .251" bullet diameter, but a .25-20 uses a .257" bullet and will be much too large for your Stevens bore. You could have the bore re-rifled deeper to handle the larger bullet.

  2. #22
    Boolit Master Hooker53's Avatar
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    Yup. I thought about that right after I hit the post button. Ha. The very first thing I was gonna do before I did anything is pound a soft Boolit down through the barrel to see what I have. Just kicking things around now. I need to start asking myself on all these RF projects is, did this thing have a heeled Boolit? If so, then the barrel rifling is not going to be conventional. Thanks for making think some more.


    Roy
    Last edited by Hooker53; 09-19-2016 at 09:01 PM. Reason: Words

  3. #23
    Boolit Master
    Bent Ramrod's Avatar
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    I've modified most of my Stevens 44s, and my Favorite .22s, in this manner.

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    Addition of metal to the top of the lever so that it props the bottom of the breechblock shut when closed approximates the original specification of the O. W. Horr patent (US 323,936, May 1885) upon which the Ideal Side Plate rifle was based. Having extra metal on the top of the lever to prop the breech block shut when the linkage is overcenter allows the thrust of the cartridge case on the breechblock to be borne by the lever and breechblock screws (or bolts) and the frame, rather than by the lever and breechblock pins and the link. Making new lever and block screws (or bolts) out of drill rod or tool steel may serve to strengthen the breeching further. (It can't hurt, anyway.) The link and its pins then function only to open and shut the breechblock, and have no load bearing function themselves.

    It is a rather tedious to disassemble, spot, file, fit, and reassemble and test to get the lever extension to slide smoothly under the breechblock while still allowing the lever to contact the tang when the breech is closed, and it is obvious that this hand fitting was the reason the Side Plate model was so expensive. However, the home mechanic, if he is careful and takes his time, can accomplish this and amortise the work with the shooting he does afterwards.

    These modifications will not turn a Stevens 44 into a 44-1/2, (or even a 44-1/4 ) but will allow more shots to be fired with the mild loadings suitable to the 44 action before the lever starts to droop. More yet can be fired before the headspace will start to increase.

    When I rebuilt my first Favorite, I made the biggest link that would fit out of tool steel, and lever and link pins (and block and lever screws) out of drill rod, hardened and tempered. Figured I had a gun for the ages, then. One carton of High-Speed .22s and the rims started bursting out the back. I did the lever modification (and went to Standard Velocity) and the gun is still tight a couple of cartons of ammo later. YMMV, of course.

  4. #24
    Boolit Master marlinman93's Avatar
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    Really great info Bent Ramrod!

  5. #25
    Boolit Master Hooker53's Avatar
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    That's for sure. Good stuff here. I will incorporate that. Now that we are into the lock up info, let me ask. You folks that have the 44's, when your barrel is screwed all the way in correctly, where is your barrel end, in relation of your action? I know this determans your squish or lockup and your headspace in some cases. The barrel I have for this is not orig to the action and when I screw it up as far as it will go, I still need about 1/8th or a turn or, one flat. This will be a touchy Feely thing when I get at it. When I indicate it up in my lathe, I'm not gonna take but a few thousands off the thing before trying it. At its point right now the barrel face is already protruding a small bit past the action. I have not tried the lock up at this point to see if it will. Keep it coming guys and Keep shooting.

    Roy
    Hooker53

  6. #26
    Boolit Master marlinman93's Avatar
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    The factory original 44's will turn up so sights are vertical, and the barrel snug against the receiver by hand. Then the setscrew simply goes into the hole in the bottom of the barrel. Headspace is perfect at that point.
    If yours isn't this way, then it will need the barrel faced to fit against the receiver. But need to ensure the hole in the bottom of the threads lines up with the screw also, and headspace is perfect. Donor barrels rarely headspace and fit up correctly.

  7. #27
    Boolit Master
    Bent Ramrod's Avatar
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    Hooker53,

    If your aftermarket barrel came on the action, it might have been fitted in a vise with a wrench. Some gunsmiths didn't like the easy takedown of the Stevens and used the conventional method of attachment. If you have a barrel vise and an action wrench, one-half to one flat off is about right for final wrench tightening.

    My 44s only have maybe 0.015" barrel protrusion past the frame, at most. Once I replaced the action pins and did whatever else, I would just screw the open action (minus extractor) onto the barrel in by hand and keep trying to close it to test the lockup as the barrel got close to bottoming out. Once it felt nice and snappy, without straining my hand, I figured that was it. The octagon is handy for this, as a partial flat is easy to convert to approximate degrees, and to thousandths from the barrel threading. Then you face off half or less material that you calculated, either from face or shoulder, try the action again, and sneak up this way in stages.

    I once took a trashed up Winchester High Wall barrel down to the Stevens 44 shank and threading and managed not only to get it to screw into the frame properly with the top flat horizontal, but to get the Winchester extractor notch to line up with the (slightly modified) 7:00 Stevens extractor so the barrel didn't need rechambering or even a headspace adjustment. I had more numbers in my head than H&R Block at tax time, and I was sweating bullets in that nice air-conditioned Shop class, but I got it done. If I can do it, anybody can do it.

    I have a nearly unrecognizable 414 in .22 RF that has slightly loose lever and breechblock bolts. I've never done the lever modification on this one; there was plenty enough else to fix. When I ran the barrel in, I did the above fitting but because of this slight looseness was also able to jam the block shoulders against the rear of the frame as well as getting a tight fit against the barrel face, and no lever drooping. The little clunk shoots like a house afire, probably because of the Stevens barrel and also the fully supported breeching. Feels a little loose and rattly when it's open but it closes up tight and hasn't shown any signs of droopitis leverosis yet. A lot of 44 blocks are only casually acquainted with the rear of the frames when the action is closed; if you can improve the contact here as well as all the other stuff, it definitely helps.

  8. #28
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hooker53 View Post
    Hello B in S. the orig chambering is 25 RF. that's why I was trying to stay with the smaller Caliber. If I went 32, I would have to line it. I think if decided to line it, I would be enticed to go. 22 LR or .22 Mag. Don't think it would take. Uh of an adjustment to the present block to stay RF. I have awhile before I get to this one so will roll all the info around before deciding. Thanks as always for your info.

    Roy
    Ah, it somehow slipped my brain that it was others who brought the .32s into it. Yes, .22LR sounds like a good way to reline it. I would actually feel quite happy with .22 WRM, which offers a pretty good chance of not having to do anything at all with the firing-pin. The SAAMI maximum pressure is 24,000, but that is on a small area of the breech face. It works out as not much over half the total thrust of the standard .38 Special, and the case is stronger than .22LR.

    Nail-gun cartridges are also a possibility for your unaltered rifle. You would have to find out about this, but I think those described as 6.3mm., such as some SPIT products, are probably right for the chamber. A hollow base bullet could be stuck to the blank with wax, but the Stevens action is well suited to a separate breech seating device, such as was often used in target shooting.

    http://www.spit.com/en/
    Last edited by Ballistics in Scotland; 09-21-2016 at 08:23 AM.

  9. #29
    Boolit Master Hooker53's Avatar
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    With all the input from my good Freinds here and your last post B in S, I think IV just narrowed it down to the .22 Mag. I even have a new Clymer finishing reamer for it I can break in. Ha. Now the one thing that comes to mind, is a Reg .22 RF liner going to have the best twist for what I'm doing? If I have a choice, then why not consider the fact there's more .22 Mag ammo offered then ever has been. There's some really good Mag offerings out there now then say 20/30 years ago. I have a Moss 640 Chuckster in .22 mag that's a Lot of fun and groups right well for what the rifle is. Thanks as always for all the good info guys. Keep shooting folks.

    Roy
    Hooker53

  10. #30
    Boolit Master marlinman93's Avatar
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    The .22LR and .22 Magnum use the same 40 grain bullets, unless you get into the hyper velocity stuff that uses 30 gr. bullets. There are also some pretty high velocity .22LR that are in the standard .22 Mag velocities. But the hyper velocity .22 Mag rounds approach 1800-1850 fps, and will challenge most rifling to get accuracy.
    I personally wouldn't go the .22 Magnum route, as the ammo has less selection options, and is more expensive. I'd stick with .22LR where there is a huge assortment of makers, velocities, and different loads too choose from. Once the right target .22LR and right high velocity .22LR are chosen, you can probably get some very good accuracy, and also a good hunting round for small game. If your choice is based on having a finish reamer to save money, it might not work out in the long run in savings.

  11. #31
    Boolit Master
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    As you have .22WMR cartridges for the Chuckster, it shouldn't be hard to determine whether the existing firing-pin, or at least the existing firing-pin tunnel, would give an acceptable strike on the rim. The block, even if blued, is very likely case-hardened, and it might be difficult to enlarge the tunnel.

    Frank De Haas advises quite strongly against the use of the .22WMR in the smaller Favourite when the original .222 grooved barrel is used. I don't think he much likes it for rebarrelling with the correct dimension, but he regards it as acceptable for the 44 action - which is considerably larger and threaded for the barrel, although I don't believe it is a superior metal as some suggest.

    Here are the liners made by TJ's, and also available from them direct. The liner described as being for the .22 Winchester (i.e. WRF, not the longer WMR) has .226in. grooves, which might work fine, but I don't trust it with the 224 jacketed bullets of the .22WMR. The centrefire liner, with .224in. grooves, and 14in. twist, should be just what you need. The only relatively minor snag is that a half-inch hole is a somewhat more demanding drilling job than a 3/8in. one.

    If you decided to go the .22LR route, I found CCI Stingers gave good accuracy in the Brno .22 I bought for a hard scraped-together £30 ten shillings and sixpence in 1970. Where they do fall down, though, is on the terminal performance that is supposed to be their strong point. These pictures are my experiments with .22 Eley High Velocity in water, the solids hitting rock much harder than the hollow-points, which remained stabilized due to their shortened length. Stingers disintegrated after a much shorter distance, with the largest piece being a little button of about 7gr. which used to be the base. Add that the increased energy is about gone at 100 yards, due to the lighter bullet, and they slightly increase, not by much, the size of varmint you can shoot, but not the distance you can shoot them at.

  12. #32
    Boolit Master Hooker53's Avatar
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    Well. Well. Almost forgot about this good thread. Thought I would give an update. I bought another barrel to work with and low and behold, turned out to be the 25-20 Single Shot. This was a new one for me. I've since then found brass and an old Lyman hand sizer and been having a ball with this abscure cartridge. It has amazed me in more then one way how well this load still shoots in this old barrel. The bore is not perfect but so far, it's my third most accurate gun in the OLD GUN line up. I do have another barrel that I intend to use some of the suggestions in this thread on. Just thought I would update. Keep shooting folks.

    Roy
    Hooker53.

  13. #33
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    The old single shots are fun. I have 2 44s, 38-55 and .22lr and one 52 (44 action) in 38-55. I shoot them very gently and so far they have held up pretty well.

  14. #34
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marlinman93 View Post
    If you have it rechambered to .25-20, and keep the .25 Stevens bore, then you may suffer poor accuracy with bullets for the .25-20WCF! The .25 Stevens RF is a true .25 caliber at .251" bullet diameter, but a .25-20 uses a .257" bullet and will be much too large for your Stevens bore. You could have the bore re-rifled deeper to handle the larger bullet.
    Been to that well, as I have been fooling with a way to make new .25 Stevens rimfire cartridges by reforming .17 WMR. It turns out that the .251 number is wrong. I believed it, too. It has been widely propagated by an error in Barnes. Every .25 Stevens RF I have, (and I now have four), has ~.257 groove diameter. Breaking down some old ammo confirms that the bullets were .257 to .258. So if you've got a good .25 RF barrel, go right ahead and rechamber it.

    A properly set up Model 44 is stronger than many people think. I have had one survive a double charge of AA#9 (in a .25-20 Stevens load. Yeah I screwed up. Don't ask.). Quickload calculated 80,000 psi, and the calculated velocity was very close to the 2300 fps that my Chrony reported. Damage to the gun was.......nothing. Longer term, the problem is that repeated high pressure loads will slowly but surely batter the holes in the link oval, and as a result headspace opens up. The looser it gets, the faster it gets loose, too.

    My survey of 44s indicates that the .25-20 Stevens CF was the most popular chambering after .22 LR. The .25-20 WCF should be avoided. SAAMI allows the WCF version to be loaded to nearly 40,000 psi, and that will loosen up the action. The .25-20 Stevens, shooting cast boolits at 1400 fps or so, keeps the pressure to about 15,000. The rifle will handle that almost indefinitely. As soon as Captech makes another run of brass, it will be plentiful again.

    For common modern cartridges, .32-20 would be great, if you stay away from the old "High Speed" loadings.

    Another possibility would be to mimic the .38 S&W. Shorten a .38 Special chamber to .770", (use a normal .357 groove barrel) and load any .35 caliber cast boolit that pleases you to no more than 1100 fps. from a 24" barrel.

    All for now. Got lots more to say about how to set a 44 up properly, but this post would become a short novel.
    Last edited by uscra112; 12-03-2017 at 02:33 AM.
    Cognitive Dissident

  15. #35
    Boolit Master Hooker53's Avatar
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    Very good info. USCRA112. You go right ahead and write that novel. That's the reason for this thread to gather and read all the info that could be out there on these fine O'l guns. I know when I bought the barrel off Fleabay, I didn't know what I had. Only a 25-20 WCF would not chamber in it. Ha. Thanks for posting.

    Roy
    Hooker53

  16. #36
    Boolit Master Hooker53's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arlon View Post
    The old single shots are fun. I have 2 44s, 38-55 and .22lr and one 52 (44 action) in 38-55. I shoot them very gently and so far they have held up pretty well.
    Hello Arlon. I had no idea that those barrels were chambered in 38-55 but then you could write volumes on what I still have to learn about these 44's. I have a spare barrel and a 38-40 chamber reamer but just have not decided what way I want to go on this. Are you shooting modern powder in yours or BP? Keep Shooting.

    Roy
    Hooker53
    Last edited by Hooker53; 12-02-2017 at 07:23 AM. Reason: Words

  17. #37
    Boolit Master



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    YES, we have a 38-55 and a 32-40 in Stevens 44s, in the Model 45 configuration
    Mike
    NRA Benefactor 2004 USAF RET 1971-95

  18. #38
    Boolit Master Hooker53's Avatar
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    Hello Mike. Good to see ya around. I see right now I'm gonna have to hit J Grants books and bone up a bit. Ha. I like these 32 and 38 old ones.

    Roy
    Hooker53

  19. #39
    Boolit Buddy blackbahart's Avatar
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    I aquired a winchester in 25 stevens RF long ,the barrel is serviceable so changed it to CF and made up the cf version of the stevens rf and shoots great Click image for larger version. 

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  20. #40
    Boolit Master Hooker53's Avatar
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    blackbahart, that's what I call bringing one back to live again. Good for you. I didn't know they made levers in this Cal. Glad you posted that. What loads do you shoot in it???

    Roy
    Hooker53

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check