NOE 311-230-FN for subsonic blackout

[natchomamma]

Anyone using this for subsonic 300blk? I have the lee 230grain, but have to powdercoat and gas check them to get them to work. Prior to doing this they would keyhole.

Interested in results of noe and if I need the GC or PB version for subsonic loads.

Thanks.

[Tackleberry41]

I have the GC version, a PB would work fine for subsonic. It may have simply been an issue of not having any PB in stock when I ordered it. I don't have a 300AAC, cant get a friend to use cast in his. So I use them in a 30-30 with a fast twist barrel. Tack drivers.

[natchomamma]

Can I buy some from u to try in my 300blk ar?

john

[Loudy13]

I have the PB version I have some ready to load and should have some results by end of next week.

[Tackleberry41]

I guess, theres a pile on the workbench I powder coated the other day. Sized to .310

[Smk SHoe]

Been using that exact mold for two different AR blackouts. Still working on load development but lil Gun at the low end cycles fine. Haven't had any key-holing issues. Just trying to find what they both like the best.

[aaholland]

I got the NOE 311-230-FN gas check version. I just cast some up last weekend and powder coated 30 this weekend. I plan to shoot them in a week while i am on vacation

[yondering]

Anyone using this for subsonic 300blk? I have the lee 230grain, but have to powdercoat and gas check them to get them to work. Prior to doing this they would keyhole.

Interested in results of noe and if I need the GC or PB version for subsonic loads.

Thanks.

If you're going to powder coat them, PB is great for subsonic loads. If you will use them uncoated, PB will do fine in a bolt action but will slowly deposit lead in the gas system of an AR; a gas check will prevent that. You can get away with a bunch of lubed PB subsonics in an AR, but will eventually have to scrape lead/carbon deposits out of the bolt carrier, and it doesn't come out easy. Of course the same applies in your suppressor too, but I assume you already know that.

Also - with that Lee 230gr you already have - boring out the boat tail is a big improvement. If you're powder coating anyway, bore out the lube grooves too; it'll give you more grip on the rifling and a more accurate bullet.

[Liberty4Ever]

This was a timely thread. I was browsing on NOEBulletMolds.com (which I love) and found this mold. I had previously bookmarked a different NOE mold for subsonic 300 BLK, but didn't buy it because I had the feeling that a better 300 BLK mold was coming. When I saw this mold at NOE's website, I thought this looked better, but I wanted some comments from those who have tried it and there were no customer reviews on the website. I did a quick internet search expecting to be directed here, and here I am!

I wish NOE had much deeper inventory. Aluminum isn't that expensive. I like that they offer a lot of mold variety for each bullet design, but in practice, it seems that means they're out of the varieties I want and only have the ones I don't. Lee typically makes two and six cavity versions of their more popular cast bullet designs. NOE has 15 versions of this mold, with and without gas checks, 2, 3, 4 and 5 cavities, some molds with a mix of gas check (GC) and plain base (PB), aluminum or brass, however, they only have a total of 15 molds in stock for this bullet design, generally in the 2 and 3 cavity and gas check varieties. I want to crank out a lot of powder coated bullets for 300 BLK, so I'd like a 5 or 4 cavity PB mold. The closest I can find to what I want is a 4 cavity mold with 2 PB and 2 GC, and I'll drill out the gas checks. It seems goofy that they go to the trouble to make a mold for people who want GC and PB and I'm buying it and drilling out the gas checks because of very shallow inventory. I've noticed this shallow stocking problem across their product line.

NOE has a nice shop and some nice CNC equipment, so it looks like they'd gear up production and carry some inventory, particularly for the more popular versions. It's clear from the fact that the versions I want are generally out of stock that those are the most popular. The group buys are great, but I think those should be used to verify a new design and ensure that their initial tooling cost is covered, but I shouldn't need to be in on the group buy to custom order the mold I want. I wish the group buy was used to launch a product and the 2 and 5 cavity versions were made in volume and kept in stock. It seems that they're doing the product development work but their sales are severely hampered by not having an inventory of the molds so we could buy them.

Or is there a newer and better subsonic 300 BLK mold and this mold is deprecated? It doesn't look that way from the NOE website.

[Butchman205]

I'm not knocking the 220gr mould by any means, not even close.

But the 311-198 NOE is a freakin work of art, which produces a very accurate and great cycling bullets for blackouts.


-Butchman

[aaholland]

I'm not knocking the 220gr mould by any means, not even close.

But the 311-198 NOE is a freakin work of art, which produces a very accurate and great cycling bullets for blackouts.


-Butchman

Does it work well subsonic?

[Liberty4Ever]

I'm not knocking the 220gr mould by any means, not even close. But the 311-198 NOE is a freakin work of art, which produces a very accurate and great cycling bullets for blackouts.

Thank you very much for the info. I was hoping to get some real world advice. I've read a lot on this forum, lurking for years, but my boolit prejudices lead me to think the 230 gr looked a bit better. I think I was put off by the pointy nose on the 198 gr. NOE didn't have a five cavity plain base in stock, but I did find one four cavity, although in brass. I've never used a brass mold. We'll see.

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product...6q5a6daqt0e0g1

I also bought the Lee 230 gr mold they made for 300 BLK. I was disappointed they didn't make a six cavity version, so I settled on the two cavity. It was very inexpensive, considering it ships complete with mold handles. I generally like Lee molds but from the poor reviews for this mold, it seems that they made the mold without shooting the cast bullet in 300 BLK. I like boat tail FMJ bullets but not for cast lead, not even when powder coated. I figured I'd run off a few, confirm the miserable performance that others reported, and then drill out the boat tail portion of the mold to make a plain base bullet. Even then, given the reviews, I'm not sanguine about the results, and I'd still have a slow two cavity mold. If I got a good bullet, I could always buy a second two cavity mold and cast from both to try to get a reasonable rate of production.

The 198 gr from NOE might be just the ticket for me. I'm not so concerned about subsonic, although it would be nice to have a full power subsonic load out of the 300 BLK AR-15 pistol so I could keep the noise down a bit, but my main interest is a heavy full power bullet that works well as a powder coated bullet, without exceeding 2000 to 2200 fps. I've read that powder coating is good until 2200 fps or so, but so far I haven't pushed that limit. Probably the fastest powder coated bullets I've shot were 500 gr bullets in my Magnum Research BFR in 45-70 with the 10" barrel, and I didn't chrono them. For 300 BLK, it looks like I could have full power loads with 150 gr powder coated bullets and still not exceed 2000 fps.

I started to comment that I have too many reloading and range trip projects, but on reflection, I actually have too much work and not enough time for reloading and range trips.

Thanks again for the info! You cost me $150!

PS - I sent a message to NOE inquiring about mold availability using the form on their website but never heard back from them.

[yondering]

Liberty4ever, a couple thoughts:

- Powder coating is good for a whole lot more than 2200 fps. I regularly use powder coated cast bullets in full power 308 @ ~2600 fps, and 35 Whelen at about the same speed. (other rifle stuff too, a bit slower mostly) You'll want gas checks most likely, and definitely harder alloys (I use heat treated wheel weight) but accuracy can be good and definitely no trace of leading even in the bad loads.

- I don't know if the pointed 198gr bullet will shoot better for you than the 230gr flat nose, but the flat nose definitely performs better on impact, if that matters to you. Heavy subsonic pointed bullets in .30 cal tend to penetrate far deeper than you need or want (usually), so keep that in mind. I'm talking several feet of hard wood with the pointed stuff, maybe a good thing if you're shooting elephants in the head but otherwise rather excessive; be careful of your backstop.

- The 230gr NOE is available in hollow point configuration for better performance, in the RG2/RG4 configurations. I'm working on one now for another 300 Blk shooter; the long pins aren't a very good design IMO but the short conical pins are great. They won't give huge expansion, but upset the nose enough to cause a bit more damage if you plan to hunt with it.

- final thought - the 230gr Lee does shoot a lot better with the boat tail reamed out. A 5/16"reamer will do the trick, run the drill press slow, feed it fast, and shut it off before withdrawing from the hole. If you're powder coating, go ahead and ream out the tumble lube grooves too.
Alternatively, you can press a gas check on the boat tail base; they shoot well that way also. This bullet is a deep penetrator as well though; it can be made to shoot accurately but don't expect very good performance on meat.

Hope that helps.

[Liberty4Ever]

I'm very grateful for everyone's comments. I've been powder coating pistol bullets pretty much since that was a thing (in fact, it was an experiment I wanted to try for a couple of years before the internet went gaga for it), but I'm new to powder coating rifle boolits. I'm very geeky, so I'll start experimenting, and I'll start my own thread later when I have something useful to add. For now, I'm trying to learn from everyone else's mistakes so I can jump directly to making my own new and improved mistakes.

Powder coating is good for a whole lot more than 2200 fps. I regularly use powder coated cast bullets in full power 308 @ ~2600 fps....

I had seen faster speeds for powder coated rifle bullets on this forum, but with mixed results. No leading, but often lousy accuracy. The leading was my main concern. The rest I chalked up to probably lead that wasn't hard enough for the pressure. Modern Reloading by Richard Lee has an excellent chapter on that subject. I should probably read it again so it's fresh in my old brain pan before I start my experiments.

My 2200 fps comment was based on some info from early in the powder coating movement, and it was probably 2200+, even back then. I was hoping someone who had been there and done that would update my info.

2500 to 2600 fps gets me to where I want to be, so I won't need to compromise on that, which is great news.

You'll want gas checks most likely, and definitely harder alloys (I use heat treated wheel weight) but accuracy can be good and definitely no trace of leading

My goal is a powder coated bullet that will work in a 300 BLK without the expense and hassle of gas checks. We all have a little different take on boolit casting, and a lot of the fun for me is being able to make bullets for reloading with stuff I have on hand. I don't know what the difference is between stockpiling lead, powder and primers versus also having a some gas checks, but somehow, in my brain, there's a difference. This is kind of a SHTF reloading experiment. I resize the powder coated bullets, so it really is just the cost of the gas checks and the time to put a gas check on the base of the bullet. I guess our hobbies don't need to be rational. Hey, if I was going to be rational, I'd buy a pallet of ammo like my friends. The only good reason I can provide for omitting gas checks is not taking out my chrono with a detached gas check (a real life incident reported in another 223 boolit thread).

I also don't want to run unlubed bullets through my resizing die to install gas checks as that can result in leading the die, but I don't want to lube bullets that I'm going to powder coat. Catch 22.

I don't know if the pointed 198gr bullet will shoot better for you than the 230gr flat nose, but the flat nose definitely performs better on impact, if that matters to you.

I had considered these issues, and was mostly trying to balance a nose profile that would result in reliable feeding in a semi-auto AR-15 platform with terminal performance. A meplat or small flat pointed spire would probably feed well, and I could hollow point them if I wanted better expansion. I shoot paper and the occasional plastic bottles and aluminum cans, but that doesn't mean that I don't care about terminal ballistics. It's probably about as rational as wanting to avoid gas checks, but I want to shoot accurate bullets that are also effective in the real world. On the other hand, sometimes a lot of penetration is a good thing.

the 230gr Lee does shoot a lot better with the boat tail reamed out. A 5/16"reamer will do the trick, run the drill press slow, feed it fast, and shut it off before withdrawing from the hole. If you're powder coating, go ahead and ream out the tumble lube grooves too.

I was planning on trying my luck with the 230 gr Lee mold with the boat tail, even though it seems like a bad idea to me and most reloaders confirm that suspicion. I guess I'm just stubborn enough to want to try it for myself. If nothing else, I'd have a starting base so I could document any improvements I make (or not). I was fairly sure I'd be losing the gas check for powder coating, and probably the lube grooves as well. Mostly, the Lee mold was something I could also compare to the NOE mold. Even if the Lee bullet performed well, I want a mold with more than two cavities. I like boolit casting, but I really like quickly making large piles of cast boolits.

Here's the NOE order I placed earlier today.

1 x 311-198-SP 5 cavity GC (311365) (K5) = $99.00
Lyman / RCBS style Top Punch 0
Drill for Probe 0
Mold Wrench and Sprueplate Lube 0
Saeco style Top Punch 0
1 x Sprue Plate Lube (SL001) = $6.00
1 x Mould Handles (MH001) = $35.95
1 x 227-80-SP 5 cavity GC (B5) = $99.00
Saeco style Top Punch 0
Mold Wrench and Sprueplate Lube 0
Lyman / RCBS style Top Punch 0
Drill for Probe 0
------------------------------------------------------
Sub-Total: $239.95
United States Postal Service 6 lbs, 13.6 oz Priority Mail™ Medium Flat Rate Box: $13.45
Total: $253.40

I'll probably be drilling out the gas check on the NOE 311-198-SP mold. I wish I could have bought it the way I wanted it, with a plain base, but it was out of stock with no answer to my inquiry. Like the Lee mold, I'll cast some with the GC base but try shooting them without gas checks, not expecting much. Then I'll machine the mold to remove the gas checks and see how that does.

I've been wanting to cast heavy .223 bullets for powder coating to use in an AR carbine and maybe my PLR-16 pistol, but was always put off by worries of leading at higher velocity, possibly unreliable ignition with bad accuracy at lower velocity, fighting case pressure issues when deeply seating a long bullet to feed from an AR-15 magazine, etc. Cast AR bullets just seemed like something that a lot of reloaders would want to do, and the lack of good results was discouraging. I finally decided to give cast .223 bullets a whirl too. The 80 gr bullet from the mold I bought is probably too long for AR-15 use, but it should be a lot easier to machine off the top of the mold to remove the gas check I don't want (as opposed to precision locating and reaming the cavities), and shorten the bullet by .075" or so, which should make a plain base bullet of around 72 gr that's about as long as I can reload for use in an AR-15 and similar platforms. But that's another thread.

Hope that helps.

More than you know! Thanks!

[Tackleberry41]

That .311 198gr NOE is a good bullet. Only way I can shoot mine is subsonic since they did not and have not had any GC molds. I am running them in Russian bores, 7.62x54 and x39.

But when it comes to subsonic, weight is where its at since your velocity is pretty much fixed. Every little bit helps. Some guns your restricted by twist rate, 300BO is generally 1-8/1-7. I can get the 230gr to work in a 1-9.5 twist of a mosin.

As for sizing, may want to look at the NOE lee type sizers. Its what I use, it will crimp checks on without need for lube or having lead issues.

[yondering]

Liberty4ever, let me simplify the gas check vs plain base selection for you:

If you're shooting a manually operated action of some sort (bolt gun, pump, etc) you can often get away with plain base for high velocity loads with powder coated bullets.

If you're using an AR15 or other gas-operated action (the gas port in the barrel is key here), you can use plain base for subsonic loads no problem, but will need gas checks to get good accuracy with high pressure loads. Powder coating alone is not enough to prevent gas cutting of the bullet base as it passes the gas port; accuracy will not be as good, and you will eventually have to scrape the lead and carbon out of the bcg. I wish coated plain base was good enough for full power loads in my 300 Blk; I've got a neat little mold I made from the front half of the Lee 230gr. I tried to make it work for a while, but it didn't pan out, and I'm going to have to add a gas check shank to that one eventually.

You are correct about bullet hardness being the issue with poor accuracy at high velocity with powder coated bullets. You can push coated soft bullets fast without leading, but accuracy drops off when pressure gets high enough to distort softer alloys. I've seen the lube grooves collapse from this, and noses slump to one side.

I wouldn't worry too much about feeding. The flat nose NOE 230gr feeds well in most ARs, and the rest with a small amount of feed ramp work. I've got a couple 35 cal wildcat ARs that use a subsonic bullet with a full 1/4" flat (or hollow point) nose; they required some feed ramp work but run like greased goose poop now.

Re. that Lee bullet for subsonics, if you can do this to the base, it helps a lot:


You can keep a gas check shank on it too, but the machine work is a lot more difficult: