The .303 SAVAGE Cartidge

[Oyeboten]

I am looking at an older SAVAGE model 1899 in .303 Savage.

Doing a little digging in to the Cartridge, I find myself wondering "Why did they bother?"

Can anything interesting be done with this Cartridge to make it a little more appealing?

Does anyone here enjoy the .303 SAVAGE? ~ and do anything cool with it?

[Earlwb]

The .303 Savage cartridge came out just at the beginning of the smokeless powder era over black powder. It is basically equivalent to a .30-30 cartridge. So it would have the same characteristics that the .30-30 has. There isn't anything wrong with it as it makes for a good medium sized animal hunting round at moderate ranges. it was made for the Savage lever rifles that had the rotary magazines so it used pointed bullets. The pointed bullets have a ballistics advantage over the round nose 30-30's. Both the .303 Savage and .30-30 Winchester came out in 1894-95 so they were competitors for each other.

Anyway if you like the .30-30, you would like the .303 Savage. The pointed bullets give it a bit of an edge over the .30-30. But if you don't care for the .30-30 then the .303 Savage likely would not be of interest either.

I think it would be pretty neat to use one for hunting myself. But that is me though. I tend to like using odd rifles and cartridges for hunting.

[Jedman]

I have a M99 H carbine in 303 Savage. It is very similar to a 30-30 Win. but is just enough different to make it special. Being a handloader and loading for over 25 different calibers I don't find the 303 any burden.
I also like wildcat cartridges and never seen or heard of one made on the 303 case but I have one in 40 cal. that would be very much like a 38-55 just haven't done it yet.
Im in my 60's and the 303 was obsolete before I knew what a rifle was but now find it interesting and still effective as a deer rifle.
I am sure others feel the same.

Jedman

[Scharfschuetze]

Out of curiosity, can you form cases from the 30/30? Is the 22 Savage "Hi-Power" based on the 303 Savage?

[M-Tecs]

Out of curiosity, can you form cases from the 30/30? Is the 22 Savage "Hi-Power" based on the 303 Savage?

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/i.../t-370043.html

or you can purchase it here http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/...roductId/12638

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Out of curiosity, can you form cases from the 30/30? Is the 22 Savage "Hi-Power" based on the 303 Savage?

I wouldn't. It has a head diameter around .02in. larger than the .30-30 family, which includes the .22 Savage High-power. The .220 Swift is often recommended, but I am not sure whether the depth of its semi-rimless rim is enough. It might vary from one rifle to another. I think your best bet would be the .303 British, although you shouldn't need .303 bullets. (While any rifle this age is worth checking with a bore slug or cast before you lay out cash, I think .308 should be fine.) The Savage head diameter is listed at .442in., and .303 British at .455, which is within safe limits for reducing the diameter after you have sized it until you meet firm resistance from the solid head. Anyway, American manufacturers often made the British round under the specified diameter. At the moment you don't need to do this, but it is useful if the supply of that Prvi Partisan brass dries up, as such things often do. Other brass of theirs I have used was of good quality.

The other question has to be how far you can improve on factory ballistics, and I think the answer has to be "a bit". The 99 action was used for considerably higher pressure cartridges, and I doubt if there were metallurgical improvements, at least in the day of the .22 High-power. But if your brass was made to original .303 Savage dimensions it is probably quite thin. The .303 British is probably better.

[ajjohns]

As far as I know, they were never loaded commercially with pointed bullets, but the rotary magazine permits this as long as overall length is maintained. As stated above, the head and rim dia is closer to 303 brit and 30/40 Krag. Barnsness did an article some years ago in Handloader magazine before prvi and Hornady brass was available and used the Krag. Filing down the head area, sizing, and shortening. It also should be noted that Savage's secret to high performance was to load a 190 gr pill, but, it was a .311 dia bullet in a .308 barrel. This gave higher pressures and some comparable velocity to the 30 WCF with the 170 gr. I can't remember off the top of my head who all loaded like this, but it wasn't everybody. Maybe Rem or Peters? used .308 dia and 180 gr. Anyway, his tests showed that it was a basically direct copy to the 30 WCF in velocity in all bullet weights.

I have an old one, standard 24" barrel and was my first deer rifle. Really like it and it shoots good. I have a Redfield receiver sight on it and it fits me perfect. I was fortunate enough to have a lot of brass and ammo come with it so I have no problems there either but I would think between Partisan and Hornady you could find enough to get by. Obviously now for safety reasons and old guns use .308 bullets for reloading. They say, not necessarily that I would, you can use 30 WCF loads grain for grain. Some older books out there have specific data for this round also.

[OnHoPr]

Actually, I think it is an interesting cartridge. Think of the era in which it was developed. If I am not mistaken the new nitro powder of that time was in the form of length strands. It is pretty close to the 30-30. Though, think of the transfer of technologies of the era from heavy cast boolits to the jaxected spitzer. Telescopic sights started becoming more popular. With the length of the neck it could handle very long heavy boolits without baring the bearing bands. The design left room for wildcatting. Just think still to this day depending on if were in the mixed hardwoods you could have it loaded with something like a HP 284 Lyman @ about 1700 fps or if there were some ridges in the hills you could load it with a Nosler 150 BT @ about 2300 fps somewhat duplicating the new Hornady FlexTip ammo being good for a 250 yd ridge shot with a scoped rifle. Its not an 06, but almost adequate for the average whitetail.

[Shawlerbrook]

Like many cartridges, the 303 Savage is not a necessity, but it is very good at what it is. I own a 1913 vintage 1899 in 303 and love it. From my research, the old timers say it was slightly better at longer ranges than the 30 30 and the 190 gr bullet had better penetration and terminal performance on larger animals(moose, bear, etc) than it's close cousin , the 30 30. Like said above, if you like the 30 30, you'll like the 303.

[gnoahhh]

.303 Savage brass is around. I recently bought a 100 bag from Graf's, PRVI. Good stuff. Check and see if they still have some. Jerry-rigging other brass (none of which is worth a tinker's dam- I know, I tried it) is a dead end IMO.

They quit the .311 bullet in a .308 bore trick shortly after they started it. No real benefit in doing so.

The main benefit in .303 over .30/30 is the nifty guns it came in. The 1899 has it all over the M94 and Marlin. (Although the 1899/99 came in .30/30 too, making it even more sweeter.)

Get real .303 brass, load it with .30/30 data, and go forth and do things like this:

[richhodg66]

I've always loved that picture, Gary.

Not much to add. I have a 99H in .303 that is a good shooter. Brass isn't that hard to come by, don't bother trying to form it from something. Loads pretty much like any other medium .30. Mine's a good shooter with cast, might just use it for deer this Winter.

[dverna]

I passed on a 99 because it was in .303. I did not want to deal with brass availability and cost of same. The caliber has no redeeming features worth the cost and effort. Now a 99 in .30/30, .300 Savage, .308 or .358 is another story.

[gnoahhh]

Good on you! That attitude means all the more .303's for we aficionados!

[pietro]

The .303 Savage cartridge came out just at the beginning of the smokeless powder era over black powder.

It is basically equivalent to a .30-30 cartridge.

The pointed bullets have a ballistics advantage over the round nose 30-30's.

Both the .303 Savage and .30-30 Winchester came out in 1894-95 so they were competitors for each other.

The late 1800's were the days when proud firearms manufacturers refused to place/stamp a competitor's name (in the chambering designations) on THEIR gun.

SOooooooo, Savage brought out the .303, also not chambering for the .30-30 until several years later, and even then (IIRC) not tagging "WIN" onto the tail end of the chambering designation.

Also IIRC, when Savage started chambering for the .30-30, the barrels were stamped ".30 Savage".


I lucked onto a lightweight 1914 Model 99H Carbine in .303 for chump change @ a local Cabela's (just outside the doors to the Gun Library - go figure), and REALLY like the way it handled, much better than my WinchesterM-94 or the .300 Savage 99EG's I've owned before it.


Since it was already D/T'd on the front receiver ring for a scope mount base, I added a red dot sight - with which I'm good for at the ranges I normally encounter when hunting Maine whitetails.




.

[Oyeboten]

Thanks everyone!!

I feel torn...

If the Rifle in question was in .250 3000, or .30 40 Krag, I would be all over it!

I do not Hunt, so...but, if I ever find my self confronting massive civil insurrections and UN Troops in the Streets, I'd really be plenty happy with a Remngton Model 550 dash 1 with a nice 'period' 10 Power Scope on it and a 'can' on the end.

My 1920 SAVAGE Bolt Rifle in 250 3000 got me into some yearning for another old Rifle or two, but, I really want it to be in an interesting to me Cartridge, like .25 '06, or .25 Ackley Krag, or something 'peppy' and 'flat' shooting, yet not a Shoulder bruiser.

The Model 1899 SAVAGE I came across in .303 SAVAGE is just so lovely though...like 1907 or so circa, has the longer Barrel, and the Butt Stock shaped like a "C" to fit around one's shoulder in it's way.

I could just stand there admiring it all day long it looks SO wonderful..!

No Scope provisions, no one ever messed with it in any way I can see.

So...hmmmm...

I wonder if there had been a .303 Sav Ackley Improved???

If so, and if I could find an able Gunsmith who has a Reamer...that might make just enough difference for me to take the plunge..! Lol...

Ohhhh, eeeesh...decisions...

[MostlyLeverGuns]

The 303 Savage is one of the better 30 caliber cast bullet cartridges. Savage 99's in 303 have usually been much less costly than the 'popular' calibers. It is useful in the manner of a .30-30. Now that brass is available from Prvi, dies from Lee and Redding it is a way to enjoy the Savage 99. Other than some drillings and custom doubles, the Savage 99 is the only factory rifle chambered for the .303 Savage. The Brits did rename the cartridge to the '301 Savage' I believe, to avoid confusion with British .303. I have a featherweight 99 with a Redfield receiver sight I carry and shoot regularly. It certainly is not as practical as a .30-30 or .308, but does that matter? If practical was the issue, wouldn't we all have government mandated bolt-action .30-06's stored at the government facility.

[richhodg66]

I am told that since the .303 was loaded with a heavier bullet (190 grain) than the .30-30, it had a reputation of being a better big game killer. Not sure if that's true, but when I got mine, PPU brass was easy to get and no more expensive than new brass for anything. Already had several suitable molds, sizers, etc. Got a set of dies and away I went, loads and shoots as well as anything else.

[OnHoPr]

something 'peppy' and 'flat' shooting, yet not a Shoulder bruiser.

Well, if you are considering that criteria then why don't you look for something chambered in the 6mm Lee Navy. Just do the research on the barrels, corrosive primers were used back then. It is in that era frame that you are looking. For its day and still today it has some peppy zip.

[northmn]

According to historical articles from my Lever Actions magazine most of what is said was mentioned. It was loaded in more than the 190 grain configuration, some 180's. The 190 was said to be able to shoot through a moose stem to stern, which may have been an exaggeration. I loaded a 188 grain cast in a 30-30 at about 2000 fps, similar to the 303 Savage and it was a very good deer load. Got one at 140 steps from the tree and it dropped pretty quick. MY old Lyman manual has data for the 190 grain 303 Savage bullet in the 30-30 and they recommended it, I would not go out of my way to use one however.
Comment was made on the 99 being better than my Marlins. Had one in 300 and sold it. I shoot left handed and the safety on the lever is totally unmanageable. Trigger pull was atrocious. Clumsy rifle to carry. Marlins are still being made they are not.

DEP

[richhodg66]

Clumsy rifle to carry? Not sure what you had, but a 99EG is the most graceful thing to carry there is. Trigger pull on mine is not bad either, at least as good as either Marlin of the same era I have.

The 99 is the best lever gun ever, period. It was ahead of its time, but regardless, Marlin or Winchesters, good guns though they may be, don't even come close.